Question, Possibly odd

[kriadydragon]

To those who read stories with pairings and/or sexual content (whether you like it or simply see it as just part of the story - you don't have to say which) have you ever come across a story - a relatively well-written story - where you felt the pairing and/or sexual content unnecessary? Either that or the story would have been better without it?

I've run into stories where the pairing is made known in a few scattered lines or a paragraph or two, and any sexual content is off-screen, hinted at rather than described. But between those pairing moments, the story is easy enough to read as gen. Of course, for me, my immediate thought is "this story would have been better without those bits and pieces of of pairing." I'm not a fan of pairings, I'm really not a fan of sexual content, so feel let down when a story ends up including one, the other or both. In other words, I have a bias, so can't say for sure if the story would have been better off without said content or if I'm simply lamenting that it isn't gen.

But I can say that I have come across whump stories in which the whump felt unnecessary, or the whump method used was unnecessary (or unrealistically heavy). We all have our buttons and our kink but even they have limits.

Anyway, just curious. It's easy to nit-pick poorly written stories. Well-written stories, not so much. Whenever I read a well-written story and run into something that makes me frown and go "hmmm" I can never be sure if I'm actually spying an issue or simply missing something (or if I'm being biased :P)

And, okay, people, really - oral sex? WTF?! Studies have linked it to throat and mouth cancer, among other problems. I think nature's trying to tell us something, all while shaking a disapproving finger.

Comments

[sholio]

Er ... the oral sex thing -- that's because of a particular STD, HPV virus, that also causes genital cancers in men and women. Oral sex isn't any more dangerous than any other kind of sex, it's just that a lot of people think it's safer and don't realize you can still catch STDs that way. HPV is dangerous no matter where in the body it is.

This might be TMI, but it just caught my eye because my husband and I have used oral methods for the 15 years we've been together because of medical conditions I have that make intercourse difficult (as well as for family planning and various other reasons, preference being one of them). Whether or not you avoid it is of course totally your business, but it isn't any more dangerous than any other kind of sex, and lots of couples use it for various reasons.

Ahem. Soapbox mode off.

In answer to your question ... yeah. In a story that's labeled gen, I'm pretty much thrown by non-canon couples or UST that doesn't fit with how I see the characters, but even otherwise -- well, I've sometimes called them "sudden left turn into slash" stories (though it could apply just as well to het or whatnot). I read quite a lot of different pairings, and I've read quite a lot of stories in which the romance feels out of place or grafted on or just not really set up very well by the writer.

I think there's probably a definite "eye of the beholder" aspect to it, though. Naye and I went with a pairing for our Big Bang story last year despite originally trying to write it as gen, because it just felt right to us; we kept trying to make the story stay gen and it just *wouldn't*! But someone (Kristen maybe?) said they felt that the pairing came out of nowhere at the end of the story. So ... eye of the beholder, yeah. Someone suggested to me once that if the writer ships the characters, they might not take the time to do the legwork and "sell" the pairing to the reader -- in which case, I'm sure the story works fine for someone who also ships the characters in a similar way, but I am not really the target reader for that. (And yet, apparently to some readers, our Big Bang story reads that way. I don't know. You can't really control how the reader reacts.)

Actually, I wish I knew what makes romance fit in some stories and not others. The Big Bang story that I illustrated this year has a main pairing and a couple of side pairings which are really low-key, mostly UST, but they fits -- they never felt remotely out of place to me. And yet I have read similar stories which are mostly action-adventure with a relatively backgrounded pairing and wished the pairing hadn't been in there because it felt unnecessary and distracting. Some of it is probably the reader's expectations, and some of it probably has to do with how the writer integrates the couple's attraction into the world, but I just don't know what the magic formula is, if there is one.

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

It's hard to say.

For me, the sex depends on many things as well as the pairing. I can't remember any fic where it did bother me, as I just stop reading and delete the fic if I think the author wrote something I didn't like or agree with.

So, no real answer here. Sorry.

[crashbarrier.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings about pairings in stories. I think when I think about it and bring it down to basics I find that it all depends on how well the story is written. If it is a good story with good arch and flow and the pairing is a natural part of that flow more often than not it is ok. Mind you I have an tendency to avoid slash of most types if I can because more often than not it is just a vicarious way for the writer to wish fullfill, which I am not interested in.

I don't mind non-explicit hinted at sex (I mean that's pretty much what you get in a number of pre-watershed tv programs even now) a good "the fire popped and spat in the fire place as their lips touched and the darkness drew in" kind of thing is okay we get the picture...


As for the Oral Sex thing.. Everything we do these days leads to some form of cancer if you believe everything that the experts tell us. As for personal preference.. it has always struck me as a bit unhygenic:/ but if people want to do what people want to do as long as its legal and consent is given then what ever.

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

There was a story of Sheppard and Lorne off world.
I don't recall if they were separated from Sheppard's team, and probably Lorne's team, as he usually is with a team of four marines. Anyway, Sheppard is injected with drugs by the villains and then they direct him to hunt Lorne down.......ie a game of cat and mouse.
Things were really hairy for Lorne and Sheppard was behaving quite bizarrely throughout......
I found the story very compelling until Sheppard catches up with Lorne and the sex begins......
There was no warning earlier. Had there been, I would not have read it as I don't read slash........
What made it also distasteful was the writer set up a disastrous scenario once they returned to Atlantis.
Lorne is Sheppard's XO,which means that the embarrassment of what happened is not only part of Sheppard's problem, but he is the CO which makes it even worse, yet none of that was covered. It was like it would not even present a problem
However, the thing that bothered me was the writer slipped it in at the end, like that would be the normal thing to happen once Sheppard caught up with Lorne.
It is not the first time someone has slipped it in with no notation. The other scenario was even worse as it also included not only noncon but as a result would present unbelievable discipline problems later in RL, but that was simply not a problem.
I realize I look at this from a different viewpoint when it includes Sheppard and whoever, but the facts are he IS CO of the Atlantis expedition........
I also just want to say that those who pair him with his team members are walking on thin ice also.
First of all, he would NEVER become involved. He is fully
aware of what that would entail as far as his military duties are concerned. He would never step over that line.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I won't go too much into my own views of sex as I've stated those views in other posts. I will say that I still stand by my belief of all these sexually transmitted diseases as being a kind of warning; that people treat sex far too casually, like a toy, and that they need to stop, step back and rethink how they handle sex. People may disagree, can disagree, but that's where I stand.

"I read quite a lot of different pairings, and I've read quite a lot of stories in which the romance feels out of place or grafted on or just not really set up very well by the writer."

That's usually what it feels like to me with some pairing stories, but because I don't read a lot of pairing stories and am, overall, not a fan, I'm never sure if it's the story or just me. But it feels like that if you were to remove the pairing sections, the story would be just as good, possibly better, because the pairing felt like it had no real point except to have a pairing. Kind of like having whump just to have whump, because it's what the writer wants.

Going with eye of the beholder, it may be that whether or not you see the pairing determines whether or not it works. I don't see Sheppard/McKay, so no matter how well it's written or light it is, it'll always feel OOC to me. Sheppard/Weir doesn't always sit well with me, either.

I think writing any kind of romance requires a fine balance. The stories I've come across where the pairing felt tacked on read too easily as friendship, because the affection felt light. At the other end, too much affection or UST makes you feel like you're drowning in it. Word choice, too, I think makes a big difference: "gorgeous blue eyes" verses "nice smile" (um, if that makes sense). But, overall, because I'm not a fan, I mostly try to avoid it ;P

When it comes to my own stories, though, I prefer light romance; something I can build but without it dominating the story. It starts out as friendship, and only at the end does it become something more. Heavy romance is just... too complicated, and for me, more often than not, feels over the top. But that's original stories, where the characters can be molded accordingly. Fanfic, I think, makes romance even more complicated since the characters are already established.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Forgot to say: When I talk about people treating sex casually, I mean mostly those who have multiple partners rather than sticking with one partner. I know even sticking with one partner isn't a guarantee, but as long as both partners are free of any sexually transmitted diseases then they're going to be a lot better off than those who sleep around.

Something else I stand strongly by.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

OMG! You're icon mysteriously changed! What is the world coming to! Just kidding ;)

There was only one author who wrote pairings in a way that even I liked. It was a Shep/Teyla pairing. However, Shep/Teyla is a pairing I do see even if many others don't. But more than that, the story had good flow and made the romance and UST feel natural, as you've said. It wasn't heavy-handed, with a lot of issues and anger without origin. That's what I usually hate about romance - when the characters spend most of the story fighting their feelings. Coming to realize their feelings is fine, but when they start fighting them, that's when I'm out of there. Plus the romance wasn't the dead-center of the story, neither was it lightly to the side. The focus of the plot was elsewhere but managed to keep the romantic aspects a part of it.

One of the author's stories almost made me cry, that's how good the romance was.

I usually don't mind off-screen sex - the fade-to-black stuff. But it usually depends on when they fade to black. I have a very vivid imagination so it doesn't take a lot to get an image stuck in my head, and what I hate, hate, hate getting stuck in my head is a sex scene, especially an oral sex scene :P. I'm not a prude, I haven't taken a vow of celibacy, but my view of sex is that it's something sacred, something you give to the one you love, in marriage, not a toy or something to be handed out like candy. When viewed in the context of something that's "for fun, to be done with whoever," it makes me nauseas.

"Everything we do these days leads to some form of cancer if you believe everything that the experts tell us"

Yeah, but as I said to Friendshipper above, I still see it as a kind of warning. I see any sexually transmitted disease as a warning not to treat sex so lightly. People can do whatever they want, yes, but they need to be smart about it, careful about it, and not so quick to satisfy physical needs.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember our discussion about this. I've yet to come across any rape/almost rape fic that handles it realistically. That's not to say such fic aren't out there, but probably so explicit I won't go anywhere near them :P

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fan of sex-scenes, which is part of the reason I'm not a fan of pairings. Another reason is that things are always so, to me, pointlessly complicated. Either that or it's a lot of UST/flirtatious banter throughout the majority of the story until I'm read to rip my hair out.

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

That's not to say such fic aren't out there

**NODS**
NC-17.......

and as you can see it still remains fixed in my mind....despite my run in with it was sometime ago.......

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

I always feel that there is a time and place for the sex. If it's gratuitous, then it's just for kicks and not plotline. I have to be in the mood for that.

[sholio]

I hope that what I wrote didn't come across as too much of a slam on your views on sex; obviously everyone is entitled to their opinions and besides, my husband and I are each other's first and only sex partners (going on 15 years at this point), so obviously I'm not exactly a big believer in the whole one-night-stand thing. *g* I guess I'd read your post as saying that there's something intrinsically immoral or wrong about oral sex as opposed to other kinds of sex, and that, I very strongly believe not to be the case.

Word choice, too, I think makes a big difference: "gorgeous blue eyes" verses "nice smile" (um, if that makes sense).

It does, and I think (even at the time, we thought) that this is what got me and Naye in our Big Bang story, because it was a fairy tale AU and the language and descriptions were -- sensual, I guess, is a good word for it. Very full of detail, tactile and otherwise, to the point where we realized that there was just no way that someone who wasn't sexually attracted to John or Rodney was going to be describing him the way we were describing him.

I generally tend to enjoy stories much more when the romance is just one element in a larger plot. (Your John/OC story is a good example -- and it's still one of my very favorites of your stories, I think.) Having said that, I think I've loosened up a lot on my personal preferences on inclusion of romance in stories over the last few years. I've always been more interested in the characters' non-romantic relationships, but I'm also used to being in fandoms that do have various canon couples; I think the total lack of couples in SGA canon -- at least for the first few seasons -- left me with a craving for stories that deal with the sort of dynamics that you can only get when there is a romance element to the story.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Heh, I was just worrying whether what I'd said might have come off as offensive;) It's the casual treatment of sex, any kind of sex, in general that riles me up, but it happens to be that oral sex is what's popular in fandom, and what I seem to keep running into. I was also in a rather foul mood, yesterday. I knew I needed to just get off the internet, but didn't and so ran into something that was the final straw for me. I usually know better than to vent when in a bad mood, but I caved.

"I generally tend to enjoy stories much more when the romance is just one element in a larger plot."

Yes, same here. Like the one you recommended tonight by Mad Maudlin (which was absolutely adorable :D I so want to read more stories like it) and there's another series of stories that I can't remember the name of that has a John/Teyla pairing but isn't heavy-handed with it.

But I think that type of romance tends to be rare - at least in fanfic (I find it just fine in original fic ;)). I mean, I can't say for sure, but the few romances I have tried are either heavy on the sex, heavy on being emo or heavy on everyone fighting their feelings for no explicable reason. Romance in fanfic tends to make me very nervous, and though I will sometimes give a few stories a try if curious enough, I'll mostly avoid it.

What I seem to be more interested in is stories where relationships don't happen, but no one is the bad guy for it - like Dasha's Salt of the Earth, which I really enjoyed. Rodney was bi, Sheppard was straight, they didn't get together though Rodney loved Sheppard but they stayed friends and it was all good. I was quite surprised I liked it, since it was Rodney whump plus a gut wound, and Rodney being bi is something I don't see. But the author made it work even for a reader like me and the friendship was excellent.

Something I would like to find one day is a het story that does something similar: one person loves the other, but they don't get together, yet manage to stay friends.

[crashbarrier.livejournal.com]

"OMG! You're icon mysteriously changed! What is the world coming to! Just kidding ;)"

I watched Madagascar 2 and found my new default Icon:D:D:D