Intermission - Turn of phrase

[kriadydragon]

I'm coining a new term... unless it's already been coined, in which case I'm spreading the love.

Emotional smut (I'm pretty sure I heard this somewhere and it probably has a different definition than what I'm going to give it) - Laying on thick emotional angst to the point of turning a character or characters out of character and, on occasion, making the reader want to vomit.

A good example of this is gen/ freindship stories where the two guys are comforting each other like they were women, making you wonder if the story was mislabeled and should have been slash. Stories where a normally tough character is crying like a baby without suffeciant reason to do so unless they were never tough to begin with. I've run across pre-slash stories where the guys are less girly than in some gen fics. So  if I ever use this term, you now know what I'm talking about.

Comments

[karri-kln1671.livejournal.com]

Oooooh yeah! I know exactly what you're talking about and it drives me batty.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Some writers can't seem to get it through their heads that they're writing guys, and guys usually aren't big on being that easily emotional no matter how much a person daydreams.

[bratfarrar]

If I'm ever guilty of this, please call me on it immediately. It's one of those things which drives me nuts when I see others do it, and I'd hate to fall into it myself.

Of course, given the nature of the types of stories I'm interested in telling, it's probably not too great a risk, but still. If anything's obviously out of character, let me know.

'Emotional smut' is the perfect term, because that's exactly what it feels like.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Oh I doubt you'll ever be guilty of this. You take writing, and especially characterization, too seriously for that.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

I think in the pre-net days it was coined 'smarm.' Just lots of emotion, and sometimes, TOO much emotion. I keep remembering a Farscape episode in which Zahn had gone a bit around the bend (sorta nutso) and John Crichton challenged her to delve into his mind (saying something like "there's not a lot up there, I'm a guy, after all") and that's always stuck with me as men aren't as emotional as women.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I think I remember that episode.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

That's the main part I remember about that episode, just John Crichton's remark ;)

[sholio]

Hee~! This made me grin, because I've been using the term "emotional porn" to describe what I write for years (in my head, at least) and now I have a companion term to go with it! My kinks are emotional, and the high I get off h/c is emotional as well (not physical), but I'm totally writing, and usually reading, for emotional gratification. Which, er, probably shows ... but anyway, I love the idea of the schmoopier h/c stories as the h/c equivalent of PWP -- the stories in which the writer just completely lost ALL sense of perspective. *adds to mental lexicon*

... and I know exactly what you mean by those sorts of stories you're talking about. Emotional smut, indeed! It's not quite as prevalent in this fandom as in my previous anime fandoms, probably because anime fandom is so hugely dominated by really young women, who have little experience with grown men. (And it shows. Oh God, does it ever show.) But I've had discussions along these lines with some of my fen-friends -- I believe that a lot of women, especially young women, don't really seem to have much of a grasp on writing men, and basically write them, emotionally, as women. Young women! If I never see another story in which Rodney behaves like a teenage girl, it'll be too soon! *sobs* Lest I just pick on fanfic writers, though, I've also seen this in professional writing -- a lot of books written by women have trouble getting a handle on the more guy-ish characteristics of guys. And soap operas, OMG, don't get me started.

In some fandoms you can get away with a lot more schmoopy stuff than you can on this one, because the SGA guys are just such ... complete and total guys! It makes it tricky to write h/c for this show, because I have a sappy inner core that wants to write hugging and talking about feelings and hand-holding and infirmary vigils and such, but they just don't DO that! (You'll notice that, despite my best efforts, I do keep falling off the schmoop wagon. I'm very ashamed of myself and I keep promising myself that next time I'll control myself, and then off I go again...!)

But, even though it's an ongoing struggle to write it, I really love it when I find stories that hit that exact right emotionally-restrained tone. It's a very fragile balance between emotion and too much emotion, and there's no better feeling than when a story strikes just the right note.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Exactly! To all of it. Ha-ha! Sorry, got a little excited there. Emotional smut, emotional porn, it's all the same. Sap, lots and lots of gooy sap.

Yes, it is so easy discerning the writers still in hichschool from adult writers. I was reading this one story where Sheppard opened up in front of a group of people - a very big group - and even broke down in tears. I completely stopped reading at that point.

It is something I try hard to be careful of myself, especially since in my original fics the majority of my main characters are guys. With original fic you can probably get away with any kind of emotional level depending on the character, situation, scene, etc. But with fanfic, yeah, people need to exercise more caution.

The boys of SGA are very much boys, and Rodney isn't going to be holding John, or John Rodney, in comfort as though it's something they do all the time and enjoy doing (unless it's slash, but even then...) There's going to be discomfort on their part and a desire to get it over with as soon as possible.

I think that's why I like using guy characters. I like H/C and emotional scenes, but not the heavy mushy stuff like you see (taking your example) in soap operas. When I write guys, I want them to be guys, not every woman's fantasy boyfriend/husband. That's what romance novels are for.

And, personally, I think you handle 'schmoop' scenes well. I think the boys can be emotional to hand-holding degrees and such. Mostly when no one is looking. It's when, as you put it, they turn into teenage girls is when it gets nauseating.

[sholio]

LOL, thanks! I really do appreciate that, because I like writing them but it is SO easy to slip over into too much aaaaaaangst. I have violated my "would we see this on the show?" rule a few times. And I've also had betas tell me, "That's too much, John wouldn't do that" (always John, for some reason; I guess I'm horrible about violating poor John's emotional standoffishness) -- sometimes I do need the reality check and tone things down, but sometimes I'll go ahead and write it that way, because I *am* writing for my own satisfaction, after all.

I've read weepy-John and weepy-Rodney stories. Sometimes I'll read to the end just out of horrified, train-wreck-style fascination. Sometimes I've thought about collecting some of the worst dialogue just for fun, although I haven't done it because I'm not that cruel.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I say be cruel. No, don't do that. Wait, yes, they deserve it!

I've been tempted to mention crappy fic as examples in some of my discussions. It's just that some fic are so bad that there's this naughty, vindictive part of you that wants to punish the writer for having dared come up with such a story. I find it rather disturbing when I find myself wanting to get into that dark part of me.

[sholio]

Well ... I really wouldn't say that I have any particular desire to punish anybody. Fanfic is for fun, after all. It's more like the "Whoa, this is hilarious, I want to point and laugh with my friends!" urge. And I haven't done it because I have no desire to make anyone feel bad, especially since I think most of these authors are young and I'd feel like a bully if I go around making fun of kids. Instead I'll just giggle privately and move on. Or mock them in general terms.

I have sometimes used specific fics as examples in discussions -- not so much to mock as to point to specific things about the story that didn't work for me. But I generally try to keep it in terms of "I don't agree with the characterization here" or "I wouldn't have done this" as opposed to "This person is WRONG!" (Or, if I'm going to be less professional about it, I'll usually restrain myself to locked posts.)

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

See, that's what I kind of keep wanting to do - use fic as examples of what I'm talking about (big time in my discussion on Mary Sues.) But, yeah, as frustrated as I get with some writers, I don't want to make them feel bad.

More than that I always want to point things out when leaving a comment - "this was good, but..." but never do since, in a lot of instances, it's a matter of opinion, and there's sometimes a fine line between what actually is and what's merely eye-of-the-beholder.

[sholio]

It's a really tricky area.

On the one hand, I really do believe that once a fanfic is put out there for the world to see, it should be open for commentary just like published fiction. I mean, we don't pull our punches on novels, TV shows or movies, so on a purely intellectual level, I really don't think we ought to put fic on an untouchable shelf, either.

BUT ... there are a lot of things I'd say about a novel to my friends, that I'd never dream of saying to the writer's face. And in the fanfic world, there's a very likely chance that the person who wrote the fic will see and remember what you wrote about them. So that makes it tougher -- I don't believe fanfic should be inviolate or immune to criticism, but knowing that I may well end up interacting with the writer at some point, I'd at least like him/her to feel as if there's a reason for my criticism other than just mocking them.

And using fanfic for examples in a how-to writing kind of post -- I kinda wish that people didn't feel as if they had to pull their punches on that (even though I understand why you do, and I do too). It's a whole lot easier to make a point with a couple of concrete examples than with a thousand words of vague generalities. And, again, in published fiction you can grab examples from books -- e.g. using a published character as an example of a canon Mary Sue. (Wesley Crusher, anyone? *g*) But you can't really get away with it when you're talking about fic ...

It's kind of like the informal "honor among thieves" thing that fanficcers do when it comes to writing fic of each other's stories. I truly believe that if we borrow canon characters without permission, it's the height of hypocrisy to then try to exercise full authorial control over unauthorized use of our own characters and stories. But of course, even though I believe that, I'm not going to go borrow somebody's story and write an unauthorized sequel to it, because that's the best way to get onesself drummed out of fandom in a hurry.