Something I've been Wondering...

[kriadydragon]

Something I've been wondering lately...

Do you think the younger a fandom is the easier it is to get into? That is, you get more readership, you have an easier time establishing a community, so on and so forth. Or that it doesn't matter how established a fandom is, it's always a matter of patience and keeping at it until your stories or communities or whatever are finally noticed?

I started thinking about this after I was nearly tempted to start some kind of gen Merlin community (because I swear Merlin may actually outdo SGA for slashiness. FF.net is by best friend again because it's become the only place I can find non-subtexty gen). I don't actually want to start another community, and for various reasons, but one of those reasons being that I'm not sure how well it would do since the slash is so established and, as I said, the majority of gen is at FF.net. And it got me wondering whether the more set in its ways a fandom is the, harder it is for anything and anyone new or non-prevalent to get established. Slash isn't the only genre that's permeated the fandom. There's also reveal!fic (in which Arthur learns that Merlin has magic). And I mean it's as prevalent as slash. And I'm starting to get the uncomfortable feeling that if it isn't reveal, then it's not going to get a lot of readership (don't get me wrong, I like reveal fic, but I'm mostly a canon junky these days and prefer stories more canon compliant).

But that could also just be a matter of needing to give the fandom a little more time and patience. Still, reveal!fic are so dang popular. I have never seen a trope take over a fandom as much as reveal fic has. You will be seriously hard-pressed to find something that isn't magic reveal in this fandom.

Anyway, I ramble. What do you all think? What has been your experience. It could be I'm just feeling a little paranoid because I'm working on a bit of a chapter fic for a fandom I only recently got into.

Comments

[sholio]

Oh yes, I definitely think young fandoms are easier to get into. Highlander, for example, which is a really old, established fandom -- I never felt comfortable in that fandom; I always felt like the new kid on the block and like all the kinds of stories that you could do had not only already been done, but had a massive load of established fanon associated with them. Half the stuff I wanted to write had already been written, and the other half I was pretty sure was going to get a bad reception because it ran counter to the long-established tropes of the fandom. I expect that getting into SGA is kind of like that now.

Even with WC ... as much as I love the fandom (and it's a really nifty little fandom!), I don't feel as comfortable and well-established as I felt in SGA. I felt like all the niches had already been filled when I got here. Unlike with SGA, where I ended up creating communities and ficathons and so forth, I still don't really feel comfortable doing that in WC; not only does everything that I want already exist (and Collarcorner is awesome; I really can't think of anything similar in any of the fandoms I'd been in prior to this!), but I still kinda feel like a little bit of an outsider to the fandom in general, and I don't feel entirely comfortable just standing up and saying, "Hey, I want to run a ficathon about XYZ!" like I could in SGA.

ETA: Although having said all of that, I think most of this is in my head -- I've never actually had people try to resist new people entering a fandom or any of that; it's just that, as a new person in the fandom, you sometimes get people looking at you funny for not knowing what everyone who's been in the fandom for a long time already knows. I've run into that with WC -- having people react oddly when I put forth something that was different from prevailing fanon on a character or a trope.

[embroiderama]

I think it's definitely easiest to become established in a fandom when it's new, but I also see new authors becoming popular in SPN even seven seasons in. I'll say that in my experience it's a bit nerve-wracking trying to get established in new fandoms after being in one for a long time. I've been in SPN fandom for six years and when starting out in H50 and now WC I've found it kind of daunting that, oh, nobody knows who I am, making new friends isn't so easy, etc. I don't know anything about the Merlin fandom though. Good luck!

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Argh! My computer is being such a jerk. I had this nice long response and now I lost it :P

What I had tried to say before my reply was eaten was that it's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I just thought I was being bitter because my Merlin stories aren't getting much readership. Thing is it took my WC stories a while to get a readership as while, and a while for me to feel comfortable enough to do more than just post stories. So I wonder if it is a matter of just a matter of being patient with a fandom and easing yourself in.

On the other hand, WC was only two seasons in at the time I started posting fic for it, and even smaller. Even now, about to be four seasons in, it still feels like a fairly malleable fandom. That is, no one trope or fanon has climbed to the top in popularity over all other tropes and fanons. whereas Merlin is so established I feel a little like I'm trespassing with my own stories and preferred tropes, and the thought of creating a Merlin community scares the crap out of me.

it's just that, as a new person in the fandom, you sometimes get people looking at you funny for not knowing what everyone who's been in the fandom for a long time already knows.

Yes. I had this one person comment on one of my Merlin fic how they wished it had been a magic reveal fic. I think they were just saying how it would have been interesting, not that it would have made the story better. Still, it really rubbed me the wrong way because it made me feel like they were trying to nudge me toward the fandom bandwagon.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

True. I do think that most of the time it is a matter of being patient with a fandom and keeping at it until you've found you comfort zone. But it's hard, because you look at what's already there, wonder what you have to contribute, and how you're going to fit in. I'm still amazed about how far Collarcorner has come. When I first started it, slash and OT3s were so dominant that I was sure only a handful of people would join CC.

But, then, the fandom was still young at the time, with people still discovering the show. I could just be basing this on personal experience but I find that when I first join a fandom I'm all over the place looking for authors, fic, communities. But once I find that fandom comfort zone I barely ever leave it (for good reason, but I still feel kind of bad about it, especially where new authors are concerned)

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

I am going with option two, ie 'doesn't matter how established a fandom is, it's always a matter of patience and keeping at it until your stories or communities or whatever are finally noticed'

I am frankly not surprised they have infiltrated Merlin
(((sighs))))
It seems that there is nowhere that you go where slashy prints are not already there or beginning to emerge.

[karri-kln1671.livejournal.com]

I think it depends on the fandom. It seems like slashers are always the first to come out with any fandom, so I think it's especially hard for gen writers to find an audience in a new fandom because the slash readers are the first to appear, as well. Gen writers tend to trickle in more slowly, and sometime I think they wander away again for lack of readership before any sort of real gen fanbase can be established. Thus is takes a while before a real gen current establish itself. So, in a way a brave gen writer can have an easier time in a new fandom because they dominate the gen readership's choices. On the other hand, it takes a while for readers, many of whom have been chased away from a fandom for lack of gen fanfic, to discover gen fic has become available. Thus the first initial gen writers in a fandom feel like outcasts.

As for popular tropes, I think they’re easier to dodge early in a fandom. Once a fandom is well-established, it seems like there’s always some particularly popular trope or fanon preference that dominates.

I find tropes get old after a while, but as new fans come into a fandom, the least intimidating way to enter is to write a new version of the popular canon or fanon tropes.
From personal experience…

The first fandom for which I wrote fanfic was an old fandom that few fans still followed. I found it challenging to write for in that I had to get creative to avoid writing a plot that had already been done to death in the fandom. I found it fulfilling, though, to find new things to say in the fandom that hadn’t been said yet.

I found it easier to write for in that the readership wasn’t getting much new fanfic to read and quite eagerly gobbled up whatever they could get. Thus, slashers and gen readers alike would read and review fairly equally. I was fairly free to write whatever I wanted.

The next fandom had a well-established and quite complicated fanbase by the time I jumped in. It was intimidating as there was always someone willing to trash a new fanfic and/or its author. However, there was always someone willing to read a new fanfic because there was pretty much a fanbase for every sort of fanfiction by then.
I never really felt comfortable writing for SGA. I came in to the show between season 2 and 3, so between finding the show late, and it having 8 or 9 years of SGC leading into it, I always felt like I didn’t know enough to keep from getting pounced on by readers for my lack of general Stargate universe knowledge. I did, however, find it hard to find gen fic when I entered the fandom, and started a group aimed at gathering some. It managed to attract quite a lot of gen fanfic, so clearly there was niche of readers just waiting for some gen writers to satisfy them.

I wrote a little fanfic for some fandom just as they were starting up. I found those much easier to write because nothing had been established yet regarding fanon or canon tropes, so I was free to write what I wanted to write without fan expectation.

So, to summarize:
I find brand new and old, faded fandoms the easiest to write in. Well-established, active fandoms are more challenging to jump into.
As for how well my fic was read, the old fandom fic is least read – there just aren’t that many fans left to read. It did well on the chat board on which it was originally posted, however, as that’s where the few fans that remained were concentrated. On FF, it’s pretty much invisible.

The new fandom stuff did very well on FF and anywhere else it was posted. Readers were desperate for fanfic, so…

The fiction for fandoms that I jumped into in the middle has mostly done fine. My SGA fiction has fared the least well – I suspect that has as much to do with my confidence level when writing it as anything.

As for your Merlin fic… I’ve been watching it, it just hasn’t grabbed me yet. I usually get there with your writing eventually. I think I’ve just been cranky lately…

[florastuart.livejournal.com]

In my (limited) experience, I think it depends on the size of the fandom, as much as how old it is. The last fandom I was seriously involved in was Farscape, which has a relatively small presence on LJ. I arrived there a while after the show was canceled and I didn't write much about the main pairing, and I still felt very much welcomed and at home there. Whereas I started watching SPN around the end of season one, and never really managed to get very involved in that fandom. (Even though there were a fair number of gen writers there, back when I was watching.)

Right now I'm only just starting to get back into fandom at all, after being mostly off LJ for several years. I've fairly recently fallen hard for White Collar, and as someone who's into mostly gen with a side of Neal/Kate, I feel like I see the characters a lot differently than most of the fandom does. But everyone here seems very friendly, and the fic I've posted so far has gotten some really nice comments. *g*

(I'd also like to take this opportunity to say that Collar Corner rocks - thank you so much for starting it!)

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

It's never easy. I'm just trying to build up a little bit activity on the fanpop spot for Grimm. The thing with a young fandom is, is that it's difficult to ralley up the people. And if there is no activity, people wont come. But you don't get people to be active, if they think that nobody will notice their activity.

With Merlin - I wished for a gen-community for a long time, but honestly, I myself don't feel inspired to write for this fandom. And I'm mostly reading reveal fics (*ducks*) and AU's, because I'm pretty dissatisfied about the direction the show went in season 3 and especially 4. Though there is a great story from Leon's point of view I'm following at AO3. But in my experience, the Merlin fandom is so slash oriented, that everything else just goes lost.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

I think the gen writers come more slowly, because they need more background information to write a fic. Even after the first season of Grimm, I don't feel comfortable to write anything in this fandom (if I had the time), because I feel that I don't really get all the characters.
Ie with Sherlock, slash and gen tickled in at the same time, and they are still both living peacefully side on side, because there was no need for the gen writers to establish themselves against the slash writers. One episode, and there was enough to write for everyone. But normal TV-Shows with more than three episodes in a season take more time to establish their characters. The slash writers don't mind, but gen writers tend to have the desire to be as IC as possible. So they often end up having a hard time to establish themselves.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Very interesting :D Especially about newer fandoms, older active fandoms and old closed fandoms. My fandom experience has always been with new fandoms and older fandoms for closed canon. Older but with a still ongoing canon is a rather new experience for me. A part of me feels like I'm trespassing, while another part feels like I need to "catch up" with the rest of fandom (although catch up to what, I'm not sure).

It seems like slashers are always the first to come out with any fandom, so I think it's especially hard for gen writers to find an audience in a new fandom because the slash readers are the first to appear, as well. Gen writers tend to trickle in more slowly, and sometime I think they wander away again for lack of readership before any sort of real gen fanbase can be established. Thus is takes a while before a real gen current establish itself.

This makes a lot of sense. Especially if you look at fandoms where gen is... not necessarily prevalent. Plentious, I guess? SGA for example. I mean, yes, the slash is prevalent but there were always plenty of gen writers to rely on, and gen had a lot of support in that fandom (gen rec, the gen ficathon). Same with White Collar. I swear I'm not trying to toot my own horn saying this but I started Collar Corner to bring in more gen fic and... it has. But with Merlin I've only found one gen community and its definition of gen is pretty flexible. There's not really a lot of support for gen community-wise, and I find my stories are getting a lot more readership on FF.net where the majority of gen can be found.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

After reading Karri's reply I'm thinking it's a combination of both. I feel that the younger a fandom the more malleable it is and the more of a chance it has to become diverse. That's not to say an older fandom more set in its ways can't become diverse, it just takes more time since, as I said, it's set in it ways.

And I also agree with Karri that it is a matter of bravery as well - to create those communities or what have you that supports what you like. Which I'm still tempted to do despite my trepidation, but the other part making me hesitate is whether or not my interest in this fandom is sporadic. I seem to have a harder time staying in fandoms longer than I used to.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Very true. I was in the Thoughtcrimes fandom for a while, which was a movie so pretty much closed canon - and though we were all having a good time and had plenty of ideas... yeah, it was a pretty small fandom so didn't really last (well, at least my involvement in it didn't).

Somewhere out there is a really excellent piece of meta about small and large fandoms but I can't for the life of me remember who wrote it. If I ever find it and you're interested I'll send you the link. I recall someone mentioning (maybe not in that meta, I'm not sure) how getting into a small fandom can be just as daunting as a large one but depending on its size. The smaller a fandom the more closely knit the group and the harder it was to get involved without feeling like an interloper (or being treated like one, sometimes).

So one would think getting into a large fandom would be easy, but with a large fandom there's just so much that you still feel like an interloper in a way. It's like you just can't win :/

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

The thing with a young fandom is, is that it's difficult to ralley up the people. And if there is no activity, people wont come. But you don't get people to be active, if they think that nobody will notice their activity.

Very true, very true. Because you do see an increase in size once a fandom starts dishing out things like Big Bangs, Kink Memes, fic challenges and so forth. I've never gotten into a show through someone else's fic but I know others who have. So the more you write, and the more reasons you have to write, the more interest you can draw in (I keep meaning to watch Grimm. I've heard good things about it, but I keep forgetting to find out when it's on :/).

I like reveal fic, it's just that lately I've been craving mostly canon or at least canon-ish stories - not just for Merlin but WC as well. And by canon I don't mean stories dealing with canon directly but stories that aren't AUs. Good old fashioned slice of life fic or in-between-seasons/episodes adventure fic. that kind of thing. But that's even harder to find in Merlin than gen.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

Grimm is really great, but you have to stick around for a while...the first four episodes were everything but convincing, but from epsiode 5 onwards, the show really got into its own. I think they repeat it know, until the second season starts.

Here is the link to the fic I was talking about...I'm not sure if it's strictly gen (it is categorized as such, but, well, this IS AO3 after all, most writers there have an odd idea what should be considered gen), but it's certainly not pornographic and a really good read:

http://archiveofourown.org/works/365430/chapters/593517

Should be exactly what you are looking for.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Thanks :D I'll need to find some episodes, first. I don't even know what the characters look like.

[antonomasia09.livejournal.com]

My first fandom was Stargate, which I got into just as SG-1 was ending, and I definitely felt like everything there was to be written had already been done so. So yes, young fandoms are much easier to get into.

With Merlin, I think the reason why the reveal fic is so popular is that most people are interested in Merlin and Arthur's relationship, and they felt that while Merlin was keeping secrets from Arthur and Arthur was unwilling to acknowledge Merlin's power/accept his magic, the relationship could never evolve into something new and better. They would never fulfill their destiny; they would just remain status quo. Plus people like seeing Merlin get the recognition he deserves and also doing badass spells openly.

For some reason, with Merlin, there are also an insane number of modern-day AU fanfics, especially with the characters together in school or working at the same business. There are also quite a few reincarnation fanfics, especially post-5x13. I don't think I've ever seen a fandom more eager to change its setting.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I totally get why the reveal is so popular because, yes, Merlin needs love! And even I enjoy the various takes on Arthur's reaction. But as a popular trope, like with most popular tropes, it does become tiring after a while. Especially when all you really want to read is an episode-like fic that doesn't spend a large chunk dealing with Arthur coming to terms with Merlin's magic.

The AUs I kind of get, at least in terms of reincarnation fic or immortal Merlin since Arthur coming back is part of the legends (I'm currently working on a reincarnation fic, one I've been plodding away at for months, now). But the school ones - not quite sure why they're popular, but then highschool/college fic tends to pop up quite a bit in any fandom.