Harmless Question, I promise.

[kriadydragon]

I apologize if I've already asked or discussed something like this. I have the worst short-term memory.

Have you ever read a well-written or at least fairly well-written story, by an author who has good to excellent writing skills, that left you feeling like they were being "snotty" toward a particular character? (*cough* particular favorite character *cough*.) Not character bashing, conscious or unconscious, but a story trying make a statement or resolve an issue, and portraying or treating one character in a way that feels a little negative while another character or characters are treated in a positive light.

It's usually why I don't like "issue-resolving" stories, as many I've come across become so intent on clearing things up - rather than exploring all sides of an issue (which I find more interesting than the actual resolve... if a resolve is possible) - that they opt for the fastest way to clear a matter up. In turn, a charater (i.e. the favorite character) ends up being portrayed as either naive, stupid, cold, a jerk, foolish, or a wuss. In many cases, I'm left feeling like the author was being a "snot" toward the character - for whatever reason (usually, in more cases than not, the author is a fan of another character) - more than trying to resolve or explore an issue.

I know character bias is involved - there are some lights we don't like seeing our fave characters cast under - but with many stories it is more than that. I once read a very excellent Hot Zone tag dealing with the conflict between John and Weir. Where as most resolve fic put John in the dog house, this story explored his side of things, and neither side was right or wrong. There was no real resolve, which I had found more interesting and realisitic. It also made neither character out as the bad-guy or a fool. It was very fair, IMO, to both characters.

I'm not saying a good resolve fic is one with no resolve. I do like a resolve fic that works out issues to a point where the matter is settled, but in a way that doesn't cast one character in a poor light and puts the other character on a small pedastel. I like it when a story explores the issues while working toward an apology scene, without one character dominating and forcing another character to see how wrong they were. It's not a matter of who is right and who is wrong, but of two characters coming to have a better understanding of each other.

Which, I know, isn't easy (it's why I tend to stay away from writing them, myself). But there are some stories where it seems like the author doesn't even try, they just want the resolve, and want it now. And if it's a character they normally don't write, that character usually ends up getting the short end of the stick.

Comments

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I have. I'm not sure where the line is between bashing and what you're talking about, but I have seen it I think. In the instance I'm thinking of, I like the author's work, but it's pretty obvious that she doesn't like Rodney very much, doesn't think he should be on Shep's team, and would really prefer to ignore that they're close friends in canon. She doesn't bash, but...those vibes ares still kinda there. So, as much as I enjoy her work, that kind of throws me a little bit.

And then there's the fic I ran into last weekend that was probably over the character bashing line - it would have been a good fic otherwise, but it portrayed Elizabeth in a really odd light. It did provide a reason for the behavior, but still...I kind of felt like it had gone into character bashing a little. But maybe someone else reading the fic wouldn't think that - I don't know.

[splitbeak.livejournal.com]

I agree with you in some respects-- it *is* annoying when a character seems to get unfairly bashed. Doubly so if it's a character I love. On the other hand, I respect that authors are entitled to dislike characters. In reality, not every person can be a likeable person, or act perfect all the time. Sometimes a character, while a good person as a whole, can screw up and do a stupid/rude thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with a writer calling a character out for doing something wrong. However, if they want to bash the character just for being who they are, they should be extra careful to make sure that that person remains in character throughout the entire work, rather than exaggerating their faults to make them more obvious or altering other characters' reactions to them to emphasize the point. I don't mind reading a fic where the author clearly doesn't care for a character, as long as the author maintains an honest representation.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

True to all of it. I don't mind a fave character's flaws being pointed out, or the character being portrayed about being in the wrong on something. It's the way it's handled - as well as how the situation is handled - that irks me.

A good example - and running into such fics is what eventually made me post this - is how John reacted to Teyla saying she's pregnant. I've read a few fics where the author portrays John as being totally in the wrong. Whether he is or isn't was not the my problem with the fic, but that the author really didn't explore the issue, look and where the characters were coming from, and ponder why John had reacted the way he did.

Instead it was "John's wrong, Teyla, Rodney, Ronon or whoever puts him in the right, the end." They don't touch on why Teyla kept it from him (and some stories I've come across seem to make excuses for her, turning her into a poor woobie victim of John's irrational wrath.) They don't explore John coming from a society that is very protective of pregnant women, or his feelings toward not being told sooner.

And McKay, or Ronon or sometimes both always come out as the good guys, putting John in his place.

If the author thought John was in the wrong, that's fine, but they could have gone about it better IMO. And I think it would have made for much more interesting reading.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

In the instance I'm thinking of, I like the author's work, but it's pretty obvious that she doesn't like Rodney very much, doesn't think he should be on Shep's team, and would really prefer to ignore that they're close friends in canon. She doesn't bash, but...those vibes ares still kinda there. So, as much as I enjoy her work, that kind of throws me a little bit.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Not character bashing, but not exactly being kind to a character, either. It's why I sometimes get irked with some McKay fans and how they handle Shep. I've even gotten irked with a few Shep-fans and the way the portray Rodney.

It is mostly is a matter of personal opinion and views, I know (I sometimes worry about writing Rodney in a way that might bother McKay fans) and I have to remind myself that we all see a character differently; but there are some stories where it's obvious the writer isn't a fan of a particular character. Though they try to be fair, there ends up being a kind of "taint" to the story that isn't quite character bashing, but isn't being as fair as they could be to a character, either. They will be fair to every other character except for that one.

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I understand what you're getting at now, and yeah, I've come across it quite a bit, not just in this fandom, but others as well. It's different from character bashing, although I've run into enough of that too. Like you said, there's a "taint" there to how the character is portrayed, or there's a specific agenda being addressed, like what you were talking about in your reply to splitbeak - oftentimes I'll just get to the point where I'll just walk away from the fic. Everyone's entitled to their viewpoints of course, and to write whatever they want, but...well, when I'm sitting there thinking "wait, but they wouldn't DO that!" then it's time for me to stop reading.

[reen212000.livejournal.com]

I hate character bashing. Being so into emotional h/c, I want to know why a writer would put a character through whatever they've cooked up. If the character is OOC, then I want to know if there's a reason for it. But seriously, if you don't understand a character, don't use them. Know your weakness and own up to it. I know there are only three characters I know I can write well. (At least I think I do:) ) Rodney, John, and Carson. In that order.

I agree with you about the pregnancy issue. Even though pregnant women creep me out (I use to work in a photo lab. Long story.), even I understood where John was coming from. I read a few fics tagging that ep, and I think only one got it. Either John or Teyla was getting bashed for their actions. I think I know the fic you're talking about. All I could think was, "That's not fair." There are opinions, and then there's fiction. In my world, never the twain shall meet.

Honestly, I'd love to read a story with more of the guys' reaction to the fact that Teyla had been seeing someone. One that's not full of yucky romantical stuff! And one that doesn't make John the jealous type, and no UST. Tall order, I know.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Heh, I always feel bad about putting up such posts (usually because I'm venting) as it makes me feel like I'm telling people how to write. I'm not, really - these are just observations and personal annoyances I'm getting off my chest, as well as a means of organizing my thoughts in order concerning how to better my own writing. There are things that bother me in fic, now, that a few years ago I would have been doing in my own fic.

That said (because I felt like it needed to be said) I'm all for writing for yourself more than others, but I see so many potential ideas for good emotional or physcial H/C wasted by authors either playing favorites or going for a quick fix. What always surprises me, though, is when it's an author whose stories are, for the most part, normally well thought out and written.

That's why I try to stay away from writing fics that make a statement or resolve an issue, as it's too easy, sometimes, to take one side without ever taking the other side into consideration. I was quite tempted to write my own BAMSR tag as a counter to several tags I'd run across, but knew it wouldn't be any better.

Honestly, I'd love to read a story with more of the guys' reaction to the fact that Teyla had been seeing someone. One that's not full of yucky romantical stuff! And one that doesn't make John the jealous type, and no UST. Tall order, I know.

That would be interesting. There "may" have been such a story, but I can't remember. It might have ended up being UST, though, which is probably why I don't remember :P.

[sholio]

That's something I worry about occasionally. It was definitely a thing I was very cognizant of when I was writing my story for flashfic last month, since the nature of that story is that I was deliberately portraying the Atlantis expedition in a bad light, so I was extra-careful to make sure the characters were "themselves". It's when you're dealing with interpersonal conflicts or outsider POVs that it's the hardest to avoid, I think.

In general, I notice it less in this fandom than in other ones in which I've been, but it's definitely very much present. I think empathy for the characters is the key to avoiding it -- that is, even if your idea of the character is different from your reader's, if you write them with genuine sympathy and empathy, I think it won't come across with that "icky" feeling. I've run into versions of the characters who are very different from the way I see them on the show that are still sympathetic -- it's just obvious that the writer sees different traits being dominant.

I'm sometimes suspicious of writers when I know they don't like a particular character that I like. Even though I know it's not very fair, I find myself scrutinizing their stories closely. There are a couple of Sheppard writers whose stories are generally well-written, but I know they don't like Rodney (via other entries in their journals) and so I'm vaguely suspicious -- or maybe I should say, braced for the possibility that he's going to be either absent or badly characterized.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I think empathy for the characters is the key to avoiding it -- that is, even if your idea of the character is different from your reader's, if you write them with genuine sympathy and empathy, I think it won't come across with that "icky" feeling.

That's how I've come to define really good fanfic - no matter the author's preferred character, they treat each character respectfully. Not just the characters but the fans as well - whumping each character in an interesting way or revealing more about them than what we get on the show, for example.

I'm sometimes suspicious of writers when I know they don't like a particular character that I like.

Though I try to give every author a chance, there are some authors whose stories I don't even try to read (there's one author who loves wobbie!Rodney fics, and is always making Sheppard OOC and an irrational jerk to accomplish it.) If I'm not sure, I'll look at the reviews. If someone says "John is such a jerk!" Then I usually won't read (which is why I don't like it when people review and say negative things about Rodney, because it makes me feel like I might be casting McKay in a bad light, which is not what I'm trying to do.)