Inquiry - Romance (Not a vent post, promise)

[kriadydragon]

So I think most know how I feel about pairings. I've never been a fan of romance, can't stand the whining, angsty complications with some romance, character A worrying if character B really loves them all while they're running for their lives or the world's about to end, and cringe whenever a show or book introduces a "potential love interest." Oh, and mustn't forget my distaste in sex scenes.

The thing is, though, I'm not so opposed to romance as to not have it at all when it comes to my own stories. The other thing is, I tend to be subtle about the romance - in that it's not front and center, yet neither is it entirely not there at all. The best way I can sum it up is to say I "leave it open"; in that you can see it as friendship that might one day become more, friendship that is becoming more, or - well - very subtle romance ;)

The recent story I'm attempting to plot (original fic, not fanfic) got me thinking about how I handle romance and romance in general. When is it too much? Too little? Cringe worthy or just right? That kind of stuff. I want to hear other's opinions on romance. For example, is a story/show just as good if no romance is involved? Can friendships be just as powerful? Etc. Anything you have to say on the matter, please say it. The story I'm plotting isn't a romance, but there's a guy, a girl, the potential for feelings but hopefully not to the extent that it dominates most of the plot. But plots can be sneaky that way ;)

Comments

[karri-kln1671.livejournal.com]

I've written a romance ficlet and had fun doing it, but I still think friendships are more powerful than romance. However, a shipper would probably have a different opinion on that. ;)

My position on romance is, erm, a conundrum, I guess. Sometimes I adore it, sometimes I can't stand it, and I'm not nearly eloquent enough to explain what makes the difference in an comprehensible way. A lot of it has to do with sensibility. Does the pairing make sense? Is it workable within the setting it takes place? Does it distract from the story or enhance it?

Generally speaking, if the romantic relationship isn't going to hinder the working relationship of the characters, then I tend to enjoy it as a secondary storyline. If the romantic relationship is going to be problematic professionally or culturally then it tends to annoy me. However, again, shippers tend to love that whole against all odds/breaking the rules sorta romances.

Also, generally speaking, if the romance is written into the universe from the get-go, it doesn't bother me, but when its inserted later on to what has previously been a platonic or UST-only universe, then its annoying. I think that's because when its inserted later, it tends to result in the character acting out of character.

If there's a male/female partnership that's non-professional, such as two adventurers/explorers/mercenaries, something like that, the logical conclusion for me tends to be a slowly developing romantic involvement, and I usually enjoy it, assuming its been set up from the start of the novel/movie/story.

Still, even when I enjoy the romance in a story, its the deep friendships that I like best, whether there's a romantic edge to it or familial/platonic friendship.

There's an exception to every rule, of course, but there ya go. Those are my thought as well as I can express than this evening.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

If there's a male/female partnership that's non-professional, such as two adventurers/explorers/mercenaries, something like that, the logical conclusion for me tends to be a slowly developing romantic involvement,

I'm the same way, which is why many of my stories will hint at romance, even if they don't outright portray it. Also like you, I feel friendships to be a lot more powerful, in part because they're not as complicated as romance IMO.

I think bad handling of romance in some books and shows have kind of made me uber wary when it comes to romance - because you either have romance tossed in for the sake of it, tossed in for the sake of drama or a sex scene, involving exaggerated complications or an overabundance of angst that even I can't handle. Plus, as you said, it can turn characters OOC.

In other words, the romance wasn't handled very well, and any warm fuzzies I should have been feeling were smothered by annoyance and frustration.

That's not to say I've never run into good romance, because I have. I'm more the warm-fuzzies romance type, where the complications are more the fault of outside forces rather than internal conflict, and physical acts other than kissing aren't needed to consumate the characters' love. i.e. - PG romance ;)

[sholio]

I don't think there is a right or wrong, just what's best for the story and what sort of relationships you want to explore. Generally speaking, I usually find platonic emotions resonate with me more strongly than sexual ones, but that's not always true. You can also have couples sans romance; the last SF novel I read, Elizabeth Bear's "Undertow", started out with most of the main characters either married or paired off, but it was not a romance at all -- just an adventure SF novel in which most of the characters weren't single.

Well, and that brings up another consideration -- narrative believability. Certain kinds of characters are much more likely than others to have either current or past romance in their lives. In many fantasy or non-Earth settings, a character's society will require them to be married young, so you'd need a really good reason for anyone past their culture's age of marriage to still be single, unless they're widowed. A 70-year-old, globe-trotting adventurer who's still a virgin would be such an oddity that I'd need some kind of reason for it in the story, whereas a 20-year-old could easily just have not had the experience yet. The older and more worldly a character is, the less likely it is that they don't have a lover or spouse in their past -- not that one couldn't, but depending on their society, personality and circumstances, it becomes much less likely. Even Emily Dickenson had boyfriends! (And possibly girlfriends as well.)

On the other hand, I certainly don't think a story is missing anything if it doesn't center around two characters falling in love. There are many other kinds of human relationships to explore. No matter what kind of story you write, there is surely someone, somewhere, who will find it just their thing.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I sometimes wonder if romance tends to be exaggerated more often than not in the fictional world. But *shrugs* what do I know, I usually ignore most of the romantic aspects of fictional works. I do think that it tends to be formulaic, mostly in TV shows, and that formula has a way of getting stuck in ones head (put guy and girl into same room, they have no choice but to fall in love!) and becoming a bit of an influence.

Oi, I want to say more but can barely keep my eyes open. I'll have to finish this thought later when I'm more coherent :S.

[novembersga.livejournal.com]

Definitely depends on how one defines 'Romance' I'm not as eloquent as some in getting my point across, but I'll try.

I'm not a shipper and I'll admit that right up front. I prefer friendships that 'may' include deep respect and an unusual closeness.

That being said, I've read and enjoyed stories that include relationships. If it is done well it's usually not an issue.

I don't like the relationship to be front and center nor the main story-line. If it is something that is occurring with the character, but does not detract from the story itself then it usually doesn't bother me.

Romance in my opinion does not mean, in-and-of-itself, 'sex' I don't have to have it all spelled out for me to know what's going on. If the characters are written realistically, there's no need. (It's a detractor in most cases) i.e. if the characters are married, then it's logical to assume they're physically involved.

I have an easier time accepting a character's romantic involvement if it's part of the story right from the beginning. It's so hard to come in later and introduce a character or stick one character with another without it looking contrived or 'mary-sue-ish' If you've got a really long story, you may be able to steadily build up to a relationship, or hint at the possibility of one if done right.

The next problem would be insuring that the characters 'work' together. There are characters, that because of their personality type, method of interaction, or their 'voice' can strike me as lending to specific relationship modes with the main character. (professional, sisterly/matronly (without actually being related), or potential romantic involvement. There are even those you can see as being attracted to one another for a time but don't seem the type to be permanent.

I don't like reading about love/hate relationships. (manipulating, backstabbing, cheating, fighting or angsting over staying/leaving.

Realistically, relationships don't involve perfect people. Everyone has faults. Those in love accept those faults and compensate. Faults should not be magnified or used as points of contention. A couple should stand together and lean on each other in times of need. Face the world and it's trials together. Couples that constantly fight, love each other this week and hate each other the next, are complete turn-offs. (I know this is 'my' opinion and that there are those that read a story specifically to see the love/hate and which way it will fall...it's just not for me.)

I tend to not read romance in fan-fiction because it is often so OOC or I just can't see the specific pairings happening. I don't usually read it in original fiction either because most of the time there are explicit scenes.

As I said before though, if done well, a 'relationship' between characters can be an uplifting read.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I like the occasional romance, but for me I've come across too many stories - TV shows and books - where it was used more as a catalyst for conflict and drama than a thought-out plot point. But that could have just been my perception. Like you, I don't like the love/hate thing because I don't buy it as true romance. I don't like that indecision and the constant back and forth of "I like them, I don't like them, I like them, I don't like them." It sometimes has a way of taking over the plot, and has always been a frustration for me when reading or watching a show.

That frustration is a big reason as to why I'm not a fan of pairings. I don't hate romance - in fact, I do have a few favorite romance shows, and depending on how it's handled I find it endearing - but when it comes to romance in a non-romance story or show I prefer it as a background thing, not the center of the plot.

My real dislike, though, is when romance is tossed into a story (book or show) just for the sake of it, just to have romance to attract those who are into romance. It never works, because people are too particular when it comes to pairings. Plus, in the case of TV, it either involves conflict that tears friendships apart or the creation of a new character just to play the love interest - a character who more often than not is underdeveloped and obnoxious.

[bratfarrar]

Hm. Tricky question. My initial reaction is that as long as you stay away (far far away) from describing how the characters are feeling (butterflies in stomach, the other person having eyes like deep pools, etc.), you're probably okay. But that's overly simplistic and probably not very helpful.


...yeah, I got nothing.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I mostly just want to know what one can get away with. i.e. Can I have a guy and a girl in the same story and not have them fall in love? Or not fall in love in a way that it's obvious they're in love? I don't want to end up having my characters focus on their feelings for the majority of the story, as that's always been a big annoyance for me when it comes to romance in fiction. Not to say there's anything wrong with it, it's just not my thing.

More than that, though, it's not something I want to write, especially when there's so much else going on around the characters. I've read quite a few stories where it seems like the world revolves around the two character's relationships, and most of the time it drive me nuts because the world's about to end and character A is pining over why character B refuses to express their love. And if they would just stop pining, they could save the world already.

[bratfarrar]

Oh yeah. Definitely. Agatha Christie does it in just about every single one of her mysteries, with as little schmoop as possible. Well, except for the few where she began with the romance as a premise, and even then it's relatively mild.

Usually, the main feeling expressed is trust and faith in a person--i.e., that they're not the murderer. The actual hand-holding, etc., usually doesn't come until the very end.

kriadydragon fic fan

[(Anonymous)]

I am not opposed to romance as long as it is realistic, pertinent, and smart...not too sappy, but honest expression of emotions/feelings are nice. I don't mind it being front and center, as long as I know that's what I'm going to be reading...but if the plot has another main focus, the romance should not attempt to intrude or overshadow the main storyline. It can compliment the main storyline and bring a richness to the story without being distracting. It also needs to be written in a way that is believable...not forcing a pairing for the sake of having one. I think it takes a good writer to accomplish all of that. Trust your instincts. You have good ones. - Diane

Re: kriadydragon fic fan

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I am not opposed to romance as long as it is realistic, pertinent, and smart...not too sappy, but honest expression of emotions/feelings are nice.

Exactly. But it begs the question of what is realistic, because I've read and seen romance handled in ways that have always struck me as completely exaggerated or complete wish fulfillment.

The kind of romance I like is the kind that isn't jam-packed with emotional complication - romance that isn't back and forth love/hate. If there has to be a complication, then it has to be real, something I can relate to, something that doesn't make me want to smack the character's upside the head. To use a cliche example - poor guy and rich girl fall in love, but rich girl's parents try to set her up with a rich guy because they don't like poor guy. That type of thing. I don't like character A outwardly refusing to like character B because they annoy them, while inside character A actually likes character B but refuses to acknowledge those feelings for most of the story. Now, I'm not saying that kind of romance is wrong. I'm just saying it's not the kind of romance I like. What can I say, I'm a bit of a fluffster ;)

Exploration of emotions and feelings, though, have a tendency to drive me nuts no matter the romance type. They have a way of going incredibly sappy and sticky sweet, or over the top angsty. Being a "less is more" type of person, it frustrates me. Thus another reason why I try to keep any romance mild in my own fic, to avoid the risk of the story taking a turn that has it drowning in sap.

[flingslass.livejournal.com]

I like the romance to be a secondary or in the background to a story and yes I know I haven't actually written anything yet but I know what I'd be comfortable trying. If reading a SF or Fantasy (Swords and Sorcery) then there may be a secondary story involving a romance but it's not a major part. I love a story with adventure, camaraderie and friendship.
(Note I'm trying to improve my writing by answering your question. It has given me something to think about.)

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I actually, usually, try to avoid romance when I can but, really, it can't be helped. Mostly because I don't want my characters to end up alone ;) For that reason, there usually is romance, or attraction at least.

Although there was this one time I thought up a cute littel adventure/romance story, but doubt I'll ever write it. Then again, who knows. There's quite a few stories I thought I'd never write, and now I want to write them :D