Intermission - What do you think?

[kriadydragon]

Do you think some writers make Rodney too abrasive, or not abrasive enough? Sometimes I think I have a tendancy of not making him abrasive enough, but it's kind of the only way I can write him. Some days I kind of like Rodney and other days I can't stand him. But I think that if I knew him personally (Rodney, not David Hewlitt) I'd probably end up punching him the nose.

Or at least that's how some people's characterization of him makes me feel. I'm not saying their in the wrong, but there have been some fics where I feel that, instead of making him abrasive, he's simply being permitted to get away with being a jerk. But, see, that's just my opinion. I believe this is one of those things that is very, very, very "Eye-of-the-Beholder" where a writer focuses on one personality aspect. Me, I like focusing on Rodney developing as a human being, abrasive but trying not to be where and when it counts. Many like focusing on all the snarking, some on his intelligence, his courage he doesn't realize he has, some all of the above, and so on.

On another note - just because I'm being curious again - has anyone ever left a comment on a story pointing out, very politely, something they didn't like? Some chapter they felt didn't come across right or the actions of a character that made them somewhat out of character? Something that bugged you enough to say something, and I'm not talking about grammer or spelling. I ask because there have been times I wanted to do that but chicken out, mostly afraid I'll say it wrong or it will be taken wrong. I'm not talking about burning someone, just saying (well, I liked this but...). It's easy to give praise but hard to give help since it sometimes comes across as sounding criticizing, but it really does help. I've had people make helpful suggestions on my fics (beyond grammer and spelling) that helped me in bettering my writing. Plus you've gotta admit that some fanon cliches can get pretty annoying, especially when you find yourself giving into them because they're in so many stories it practically becomes subconscious to use them. I'm still tempted to write out Beckett's accent.

Comments

[karri-kln1671.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Details?

[karri-kln1671.livejournal.com]

Details? Osh! So particular... Okay.

I think that a lot of fanfiction writers fail to write rounded characters. While it's true that most characters start out fairly unrounded when a series first premiers, as the series progresses the characters develop, so that my the end of the first season, if the show is any good, we seen more than on side of the primary characters. That's especially true with Rodney McKay. The character that we see at the end of SGA S1 is vastly more developed and rounded out than the character that was first introduced in SG1.

The problem for fanfiction writers is that writing a well developed character takes effort; writing the cliche of a character doesn't. Many fanfiction authors (and some of the show's writers, for that matter) are lazy, thus in fanfiction we get Abrasive!Rodney or Jerk!Rodney or Rodney the Scared Rabbit or Rodney the Never Been Loved, instead of a Rodney who is multi-dimensional.

Yes, I have pointed out, ver politely, when something happens in a story or chapter than I didn't like. Most often it has been a bad ending, which can make or a break a story for me. There have been other things I've commented on, too, though. I'm most likely to comment if its something that makes a story a might have otherwise really loved instead only tolerable.

On the accent...*sigh* I know JK Rowling manages to pull it off in her writing, but for the most part I find it distracting, and therefore annoying.

Now, see, wasn't 'Yes' so much more pleasantly succinct?

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

But being a discussion topic, 'yes' doesn't really cut it. Details are needed to prolong the discussion and show all sides of a matter. Now, if this had been an opinion poll, then a 'yes' would have been fine.

I most highly agree that writers of a show tend to get lazy with characters. Either that or they don't pay close enough attention to them. There have been episodes of shows where a character does something that, based on how that character had been developing, they totally would not or should not have done, thus throwing everything off.

[reen212000.livejournal.com]

Note #1: It's true that some focus on one aspect of his personality. Believe it or not, Rodney and I are kinda alike. Well... If he was black, a girl, and not too smart. But I think a lot of people have a little Rodney in them. The trick is finding your inner Rodney. I worked in customer service for a number of years. If you deal with humans at all on a daily basis, you are a snarky person. Find your inner snarkiness, people! As you can tell, I use pop culture and basic contempt for idiots to channel Rodney.

Note#2: I certainly don't mind con crit, as you know. Every once in a while, I do ask people to watch their punctuation, only when it effects the story. My mother tutored English and Grammar, and of course we had to speak proper American English. So sentence structure and all that gets to me sometimes, but I'm kind of a perfectionist. And when I see something misspelled in something I posted... drives me insane.

Note #3: I am so about to get all kinds of cliche with the end of Manipulation. It's been a long time since I've written a mystery, and there's bloody red herrings all over the place. I don't mean it, and I've stopped myself a number of times. But still...

As for Carson... yeah, me too. But only to a certain extent. I can't do it verbatim; just looks too silly.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I like Rodney's "tell it like it is, don't put up with crap attitude" plus I appreciate how defensive he gets as I'm that way myself. But, sometimes, I think some people write him as being a little too grouchy, even a bit cold. The other thing I like about him is that he has this great propensity to care even if he's not always good at it, but some people seem to bury the attempt under too much sarcasm. "that's how he deals" is what some have told me, but I've seen him go outwardly sympathetic, like in 38 Minutes and Conversion. I just think some people go overbaord with the abrasiveness, as though that's all there is too him.

I get prickly about speliing myself, which is why I'd rather people didn't point it out. I do fanfic for fun but would rather expend more energy in original fic, so I don't really have any major plans of going back over my stories. Once they're up, that's it. Plus mistakes happen and even betas can't always catch them. What I would prefer is help with plots, but I know good and well that tends to be tricky to handle.

I don't think Manipulation is cliche. Actually, I think it quite clever. I was talking more fanon cliches - stuff overdone in fics but isn't really in canon (Zelenka's still, Kirking, Sheppard being self-sacrificing, etc.) I read a story that was nothing but fanon cliches. I wanted to tell the person to back off from the cliches already, but I wasn't sure how to put it, so didn't.

[bratfarrar]

Do you think some writers make Rodney too abrasive, or not abrasive enough?

Yeah, it seems like there two fanon McKays: the one who thinks everyone is stupid and so completely undeserving of his sympathy/consideration, and the one who's an utter woobie. There are an awful lot of stories about the woobie. I read them sometimes, and it's sort of like the McKay from the show has been lobotomized.

has anyone ever left a comment on a story pointing out, very politely, something they didn't like?

I don't really feel comfortable doing this unless I'm friends (of some sort) with the writer. So I might at some point say to you, "Hey, maybe you could tweak this little thing," but that's because we have 'conversations' like this one. With most writers, I'll either shrug to myself, or stop reading their stuff, if it consistently has problems.

Plus you've gotta admit that some fanon cliches can get pretty annoying

Oh yeah. Ain't that the truth.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I always feel some writers make him to abrasive when it comes to helping John - the "yell at him to fix him" deal that has always bugged me. In some fics it actually works but in others... I don't know, it just feels like Rodney is getting away with too much, and that all his berating would, in real life, only make things worse. I'm not saying he has to be all pitying since John would hate that, but sometimes he doesn't seem to show any concern at all.

Which makes the woobie McKay stories even more irritating. He gets sympathy in his fics while John just gets yelled at.

When it comes to new writers (those new to the actual writing process) I have made comments. I think I've even pointed things out to writers I've known in subtle ways. But for the most part it's hard to do since a lot of it - when it comes to plot or characterization - can all be just a matter of opinion. Yeah, I get frustrated by how certain characters are portrayed, but if it's close to canon and that's how the person sees them, then I can't really say anything.

But there are some fics that so totally butcher a character it gets hard not to say anything. But I know that if I do, it'll probably just lead to an argument, so I don't say anything at all.

[kristen999.livejournal.com]

Do you think some writers make Rodney too abrasive, or not abrasive enough?

More often than not he's too abrasive I think, but that when I was searching for fic to read, now I stick to a group of authors or rec's and he's pretty canon to me. Sometimes I have to be careful of making him too snarky, but then again when Rodney is under stress, he can be a bit harsh and a lot of us write the guy in tough situations.

I don't like it when Rodney is insulting without a hint of his undertone and his real feelings, even uber ego!Rodney seems to a thing for some writers.

As for pointing out things to writers..in the CSI fandom, if I was reading a really good fic and there was something off that could be fixed to improve the fic , I'd make a slight suggestion but I was very careful how I did it.

Most often than not writers can have this amazing fic going and have something like POV issues that once fixed, can be applied to other times they write.. I know if someone wasn't kind enough to me in the past to offer a tip, than I wouldn't have learned.

However, I hate nitpickers. People who seem to search for mistakes in your story...sorry I'm not getting paid to write this and trying to be annoying and point out every tiny issue annoys me. That happened with me recently and after the 6th 'nitpick' I kindly told the lady that I was bound to make mistakes even with a beta and that she didn't have to point out every type-o out there.

Right now I don't have the time to really try to offer advice, if its something like bad characterizations, I won't read it.

There was a recent fic posted that seemed way cool set in season 1, but the writer wrote Carson with a very heavy accent and it was so distracting that I couldn't bring my self to read more..I almost mentioned how much I enjoyed the fic except for that part, but chickened out.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I'll agree Rodney does get harsh under pressure, but he also - on occasion - can be quite caring and I think some authors sometimes forget to show that. I think 38 Minutes is the best example of McKay under pressure with someone wounded, alternating between snarky, focused, and concerned.

On the other hand, it's easier to see Rodney's concern behind the snark on the show, but can be hard to convey in a fic even with proper descriptions. But I've come across stories where it seems like Rodney expresses no caring what-so-ever, just frustration and a desire to get everything overwith. This probably wasn't the writer's intent, but he almost comes across as being more selfish than trying to help.

Oh, gosh, nitpickers. I can't stand nitpicking. I had someone do that to me, read each of my stories and nit-pick all the spelling mistakes (I mentioned this in another entry, where they made me feel like I had no idea how to spell.) I did what you did, told them that mistakes happen, I do fanfic for fun, and prefer putting more effort into my original fic. It took a while but they eventually stopped.

[obsessed1o1.livejournal.com]

i think other than SHeppard, McKay is my favourite character to write for because he is multi-faceated. Rodney has the potential to be a jerk, to be abrasive but at the same time vulnerable and caring and just so much more than what some writers portray him as.

Oh and I had another person review on of my stories and give the your, you're, spiel the other day. You make one mistake with they're,. there and their and you get a whole lecture....urgh...i just remember you mentioning it as a pet peeve once......:D annoying isn't it?

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

That's what I like about Rodney, too, that he has so much potential for develping as a character (probably because it's said the writers tend to focus on him the most). But there have been stories written in a way that make me like him a lot less for a while.

Having a spelling mistake pointed out isn't so bad, it's when you get those lectures like you have no idea how to spell. I mean, yeah, if my fic was heavy with the spelling mistakes, okay, then I deserve it. But spelling their when it should have been there once doesn't mean I have no idea how to spell. Among all possible errors, the ones like you mentioned are the most common since they're so easy trip up on.

[drufan.livejournal.com]

Ha, ha, ha, ha! I know of whom you speak for I too have received such a commentary and a lecture! She never said how she liked the story(ies) as a whole though...bummer.

I have also left concrit for a few authors when a device didn't work or, if I knew them, how some characterization did not work for me. But I always give the positives along with the negatives. As you say it's fanfic and unless I think it will help them in the end with the story or writing as a whole, I'll let alot of things pass or just move on.

Concrit has helped me in the past. My story, When, was actually written because the previous story was unclear about the ending. People said so, and so I learned, and a knew story spun out of it.

The subject of Rodney...It's a fine line writing him because he is an Everyman type of character with extraordinary gifts. He the Un-hero in with all of the heros. He has to be crass yet caring. Tactless yet not intentionally mean. He's fun to explore.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

They probably thought the fact that they were nitpicking was a subtle hint that they liked you story. But that's just not write. When it comes to critiquing you have to point out what's good, not just what needs to be fixed, or the writer just feels like they suck at writing. I know. I took classes where the other students critqued the story, always pointing out what needed to be fixed but never saying what the good points were. Then I took this one class that was more one on one with the teacher, and he pointed out what was good, what needed work, and gave suggestions for how to better the story.

I've had critiques that have helped me a lot, but only the ones that pointed out what needed work and what was fine as is.

I think that's why Rodney's character is so popular, because he's mulitfaceted. Which makes me feel bad for John. He's such a fun character but it always seems like the writers are trying to make him as cliche a hero as possible, and if it wasn't for Joe F's giving him personality then he probably would be. Thank goodness for good acting.

[drufan.livejournal.com]

Amen to Joe F. It's the little glances he gives to other characters that gives you more info on Sheppard than anything that has been written. It's the between the lines acting that has Sheppard my downright fave. He is given few lines yet you can see the wheels turning in the character's head. He is the master of subtlety.

[wildcat88.livejournal.com]

I'm with O1. Other than Sheppard, McKay is my favorite to write for because he is so complex. But it is hard to find that fine line between sarcasm and concern that defines him.

Many times I find McKay to be too dependant on Sheppard. I don't think he comes across that way in the show. One comment he made in Duet fascinated me. Sheppard confesses to giving the order to shoot down the dart. McKay tells him that what happened to him and Cadman is not Sheppard's fault. He doesn't blame John or yell at him. He sees the necessity of sacrificing his life to save Atlantis. I try to keep that in the back of my mind when writing him.

I find that when I read fanfic, I have to be able to hear the character actual say it in my head. Many times, I can't and so find it out of character. I have pointed it out once. I stay away from correcting spelling and punctation errors (although I will admit that it distracts me from the story).

And after reading the comments here, I will make an effort to give a more specific detailing of what I appreciated in a story. I take the easy way out sometimes.

I don't write Carson's (or anyone else's) accent. Entirely too distracting.