Argh! A pox on Fanon Cliches, a pox I say!

[kriadydragon]

Fanon cliches are driving me batty. They keep trying to butt in to my slave fic. John may be a private guy but he's also smart. If he had a problem, whether something physical or mental that was interfering with his job, he would get help so he could function and do what he needed to in order to protect others.

But the cliche (sometimes over-done to a ridiculous degree at that) of him being so stubborn he would refuse to get any kind of help from anyone keeps trying to muscle its way in. Though I know he would react in a certain way to certain situations, my brain keeps wanting me to write him reacting in a totally different way. It's actually making my story a lot harder to write than it should be. I'm trying to go in a different direction from what has been done. It's clear in my head but once I start writing it down it tries to veer off course.

But I will get this story done, consarnit! I will! (Twenty chapters thus far with plenty more to go. I don't do word counts as they mean nothing to me.)

On a positive note, I finally got my laptop and have been writing like crazy - both my SGA fic and a Thoughtcrimes chapter fic. Yay! It's so nice being able to whip out chapters more quickly (not too quick, of course, since I'm altering between the two depending on what I'm in the mood to write.) No more TV messing with my concentration or people demanding the computer. I'm free, free! 

Comments

[reen212000.livejournal.com]

Out! Damned cliche, out! Out! I know exactly what you mean. I'm working on my next SGA fic, and it's leaden with those stupid cliches. I can't tell you how many times I re-write chapters! My Thoughtcrimes fic is a perfect example. Chapter 11 was re-written three times. Crimeny! Let's not even discuss chapter 12.

Good luck (or break a leg... I just paraphrased MacBeth. Does the curse include writing, too?) with the slave fic. I've been waiting on pins and needles for the next chapter. (I'm assuming it's Wayfarers...)

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Thanks. This is the toughest fic I've written to date and the cliches really aren't helping.

Because it's such a tough fic, Wayfarers has kind of taken a back seat (plus there's still stuff I'm working out concerning the next chapter. Piddly stuff. I don't know when the next Wayfarer chapter will be out.)

[bratfarrar]

It's wonderful having a laptop! I love mine, despite how cranky it gets sometimes.

As to your problem with getting John to behave properly - not that he ever behaves properly, but you know what I mean - whenever I have that problem, I find it helps to sort of recalibrate my sense of who he is. That means watching the show or reading transcripts of it, reading authors who write a John similar to my own, or even just rereading my own stuff, to remind myself of how I've written him before.

Which may or may not be helpful. In any case, congrats on reaching 20 chapters! Though I must admit I'm a horribly slow writer - to me, twenty chapters seems a little like reaching the moon. Good luck on finishing it up!

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... those aren't bad ideas. A lot of the problems I'm having are with emotional stuff. I've read one too many "Sheppard the stubborn psycho" fics that keep butting in. I should try your suggestions.

Once I have a story planned out I tend to whip through chapters pretty quick, but I've been stuck on chapter twenty for a while now (I finally finished it two days ago, so now I'm stuck on chapter twenty one.) This is really the hardest story I have ever written, which makes me both love it and hate it.

[wildcat88.livejournal.com]

Back off, crazy cliches! Don't you go near kriady right now. She is very busy and doesn't have time to deal with your nonsense.

I'm waiting on pins and needles to read the new fic!

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

[drufan.livejournal.com]

Congrats on the laptop! And for that wily John...I believe he needs a spanking...or a Holy Hand Grenade...which ever is easiest!

Just watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail...Sorry.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Thanks. And I think Sheppard would just catch the grenade and toss it back.

[giusytriso.livejournal.com]

Congrats for your new laptop. That means more freedom and time to write.
As for the cliches, I don't like them either but I know that whatever you write is good, so I just trust your judgement.

Can't wait to read your slave fic!

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Thank ye. It has been much nicer writing-wise. My brain has been less stressed.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Wow, I was just thinking about this yesterday too... the fan cliches.

But, a new laptop?What kind? what did you get? I ask because I'm seriously considering getting one. I have one, but it's from 1993. In other words, it can only run Win95 and could easily be used as a murder weapon it's sooo heavy.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what kind it is except that it's an old one. It's a used one my brother got from his work and he replaced the harddrive. I didn't want anything fancy, just something to use to write stories. Our computer is in the same room as are TV, making it hard to concentrate on writing. Thus the need for something I could both write on and moved to a quiet location.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Hey, as long as it works :) and you can write more fanfic ;)

[sholio]

Fanon cliches, gads, I know exactly what you mean! It's a little creepy to go back to some of my earlier stories and re-read them and discover so many cliches that had snuck in there without me noticing at all! There are some things that have so many cliches associated with them that they're nearly impossible to write in a new way. Infirmary scenes, OMG ... I almost can't write them anymore; in fact, I've started avoiding them lately. There are only so many ways to describe an ice chip or a ventilation tube...

I think someone upstream of me in the comments suggested going back to the source to get back in touch with the way the character actually behaves in canon, and that's what works the best for me. The other check that I'll use with characterization is to ask myself, "Can I imagine John/Rodney/Ronon/Teyla saying or doing this?" If I can picture in my head the actor going through the scene and saying the lines I've given them, then it gets the seal of approval...

And then, there's some fanon that I have trouble throwing out completely because I just personally like it, darnit! I've sometimes had scenes that I knew were wrong with regards to canon, but I didn't really want to "correct" them because I didn't want to lose the scene.

... and this is probably as good a place as any to say that I am just in awe of how much you write. I always thought of myself as fairly prolific, but I'm nowhere near in your class. And you do original fic, too! I bow before your greatness. *bows*

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Hee-hee! I always find it amusing when people who say how much they admire my stories or my writing or how much I write are the same people whose fics I read and go "Crap, I suck! Why can't I write like them?"

I've got too much time on my hands, which actually isn't a good thing since I need to be using that time for original fics.

I'll confess to cliches I kind of lean toward (Sheppard not eating enough, for example, though I try to make it plausible) I know the guy eats just fine.) And, yeah, the infirmary scenes are kind of getting to me too... but I love them so (I've been trying to avoid ice-chips, going straight to cups of water instead).

The biggest problem I've been having with the fanon cliches is Sheppard being portrayed as either too stoic, fearless, lacking in slef-preservation, or foolishly stubborn. Watching SGA has helped a lot, especially the Long Goodbye and the scene where Sheppard hesitates looking nervous before finally nearing Thalen's pod. To me, that one part summed him up in a nutshell: Brave but not fearless, stupid, or inconsiderate of his own well being.

But I'm starting to get why some people avoid reading fics while writing them. I'd do the same, but my will is weak *hangs head in shame*.

[sholio]

LOL! One of the neat things about fandom is the way it's sort of a mutual admiration society. I still sometimes get that happy little thrill of "OMG I can't believe [writer x whose work I really like] commented on my story!"

I've never even really tried to avoid stories when I'm writing one. For one thing, I've usually got at least one story going at any given time, so I'd never have an opportunity to read any! But also, since bits and pieces of stories that I read tend to lodge in my brain, I don't feel as if I'm in danger of being any MORE influenced by a story I'm currently reading, than I am by one I read last month. The only time when it might happen is if I'm reading a lot of one particular author's stories, so I might start unconsciously picking up their linguistic quirks. But that doesn't happen very often, and more often with published fiction than with fanfic anyway.

No ... I think the problem (for me) that there are just so MANY stories in this fandom that it's hard to come up with new ways of doing the kind of scenes that tend to repeat between different stories -- like different ways of putting together an infirmary scene that don't simply repeat everyone else's scenes, or new ways of handling a leg injury ... stuff like that. Well ... and it's awfully easy to fall into the same patterns of plot and characterization and speech and character relationships that other people use. It's easy to start thinking of things like ultra-self-sacrificing John as being canon when the same way of writing the character is repeated over and over in different stories.

In those cases, we fanfic writers have a huge advantage over writers of original fiction, which is our ability to go back to canon to get ourselves back on track. I love that. I wish I could do that in my original fiction! I suppose in a way it's more constraining, because in original fiction you get to define the parameters of the character yourself -- if you decide that this character really *should* be more self-sacrificing than originally planned, or just turn out to be a bastard because the scene works better that way, then you can do that ... and go back to rewrite earlier scenes to make it work. Not an option fanfic writers have. But then, original fiction writers have a constant battle to keep the characterization from wandering all over the place -- at least, I know I have that problem! My characters will often end up very different from how I originally envisioned them.

... ahem. I ramble.

But anyhow, the bit of fanon that I have the most trouble letting go, is the idea of John and Rodney as best friends. I know canon has specifically contradicted this, but it used to be very integral to how I perceived the character dynamic on the show, and it's been hard to wrap my mind around the idea that I'm getting this out of fanon and my own head, not out of the show itself. Most of my already-started stories relied on this idea to a greater or lesser degree; with the existing ones, I've either written around it, or just given up and pretended like it's canon (heh) -- but in the future I'll have to take it into account. I've never been one of those people who can say, "I'll just ignore this bit of canon that I don't like." Canon is a package deal for me -- it's all or nothing.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

There was a lot of hooplah about that - Carson being Rodney's best friend rather than John. I never understood why John couldn't be considered Rodney's best friend as well. People can have more than one best friend. But then I haven't seen Sunday yet (just spoilers and pictures) so I don't know the whole situation.

But whatever was done in canon I would think it shouldn't interfere with John/Rodney friendship fics. In most of the freindship fics I read, there's always a realization on Rodney's part, and sometimes Sheppards, of just how much he values the friendship of the other.

And If they're not best friends now I imagine they will be eventually.

[sholio]

Well, what Rodney said to Carson in the episode was "You're the closest thing I've ever had to a best friend" -- which is pretty unambiguous that he doesn't see John that way. And that he's closer to Carson than to John, which isn't really how I see them in canon (in early season 1, maybe, but not anymore).

On the other hand, I think you can make a pretty good case that Rodney isn't John's best friend either ... that is, Rodney is not any more important to John than any other member of his team (or Elizabeth). Which is not to say that he doesn't get unique and individual things out of his friendships with each of them. I've seen some people refer to Teyla as John's best friend, and I think there's some validity to that -- at least in the sense that in canon, she's the one that we've actually seen him confiding in, several times in season 3. If he's going to open up to someone emotionally, she's the most likely one.

One of the things I've always liked about SGA is that none of the characters are the be-all and end-all of someone else's world. They are close, but it's also apparent that they have a circle of friends, not just one or two people. Which means that I'm trying really hard to get over my friendship OTP-ness with John and Rodney. *grin* I know it's not canon and I don't want to be watching canon and wanting to see something that isn't there.

[sgafan33.livejournal.com]

It didn't surprise me that Rodney considered Carson the closest thing to a best friend he ever had. The two of them seemed to have a more personal connection. If you want to tag the Rodney and John friendship, I think of them as buddies. Somebody who you would play Sim City with. But if there was anything emotional to discuss, and these are guys so I didn't imagine much of that was going on, then Rodney would talk to Carson. We've seen Rodney and Carson talking about their dating prospects. We caught a glimpse of John and Ronon having that kind of talk in "Sunday".

[sholio]

Well, see ... here's my problem with that. In season 1, I think you're absolutely right. But by the time we get to season 3, we see Rodney using John as a confidante a lot. When he's having problems with his sister, John's the one he goes and talks to about it, and John's the one who tries to fix things for him. John is the person he calls in "Return" when he's feeling lonely. In Echoes, when he wants to show off the whales to someone, John is the first one he calls. In "Tao", John is the one to whom he gives his last requests and asks to read his eulogy.

Now it's quite possible that there's more going on off-camera than what we see. It's possible, for example, in "Return" that Rodney's been calling Carson every day and he's just now decided to give John a call for the first time because they're seeing each other for dinner the following night. But in order to get that reading of the characters, you have to base it on stuff we don't see in canon. Based on stuff we do see in canon, in season 3 John is the one that Rodney leans on for emotional support in almost every case.

It's not that his relationship with Carson is completely absent in season 3; there are some nice scenes between them. But for the most part, based on what we see in canon, John seems to have become Rodney's default go-to person for hanging out, emotional support or sharing nifty stuff.

I do agree that John doesn't go to Rodney with that kind of thing, though. Teyla is definitely his confidante person for emotional stuff (as in Sateda, Phantoms or Sunday) and, as you've said, we saw John and Ronon doing the buddy-bonding thing in Sunday, as well. His relationship with Rodney seems to be more superficial than that. And it's possible that Rodney doesn't think of John as his best friend, even if he acts like it, because John doesn't reciprocate or really do anything to encourage emotional sharing, the way Carson does.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I think Rodney and Carson's relationship is best friend while Rodney and John's relationship is more brotherly. They bicker and tease like brothers but Rodney knows John is someone he can always go to, and probably even looks up to in a way - like an older brother.

Carson is someone to hang with and talk to (if they were kids then ride bikes and play video games with.)

Looking at it that way, it makes sense why Rodney would call Carson his best friend. I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the line Rodney called John the brother he never had, or vice versa (although I'm not holding my breath for that one).

[sholio]

(That icon of yours cracks me up every time I see it ...)

This has been suggested to me before, the brothers vs. friends thing, and it actually fits very well with how I see the characters' interaction. Including the absolute refusal to admit how much your siblings mean to you; you'd never admit that your brother or sister is your best friend, at least most people wouldn't, but in a crisis, they're the ones you go to.

I'd love to see some mention of that in canon, but not holding out TOO much hope for it.