Next Inquiry! Mary Sues in original works.

[kriadydragon]

In terms of original fiction (not fanfic, original fic) when does the character (specifically main character) become a Mary Sue? I read a meme a while back that was a lovely explanation of a Mary Sue but it kind of confused me on Mary Sues in original fic. And since learning that Mary Sues can pop up in original stories, it's put me in a rather cautious state of mind with my own characters. Although I'm not too worried as I prefer flawed underdogs to Mr. and Mrs. Perfect.

And speaking of original fic, thus far I'm leaning heavily toward making Black Dragon my next published work. It's still up in the air what with it being a series and all (and with my poor track record when it comes to epics or series), but the way I figure it, it's a series I have to start eventually. Plus, out of all the series I've thought up, this one is the most complete in terms of plot and having a final story to end the series on. I also have an extensive list of "episodes" in between (though no definite number on how many books there will be.)

I also figure that there's safety in a series (unless it doesn't do well, heaven forbid). It'll ensure that I always have something to write and publish. And so long as I stay several books ahead of myself, I'll be able to write other stories in between or if I need a break from the series.

But first I need to flesh the story out a heck of a lot more. Most of what was posted in my journal will not end up in the final product.

Anyways, that's my possible plan for my next original work, although I'm still thinking about it.

Comments

[sholio]

I've always thought of a Mary Sue as a character who warps the story around them. Someone who is too pretty and perfect and good at everything to be real (or, alternatively, has a ridiculously tragic past that hasn't left any scars on them at all); someone who is admired by everyone around them, even people who probably wouldn't; someone who wins against overwhelming odds even though there's no sensible explanation for it. They don't seem to exist in the story as a *character* -- instead, they're a vehicle for the author's fantasies of being loved, admired and successful.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Larger than life, then.

Have you ever read a book with a character you felt was rather Mary Sue?

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

I don't know that I've ever run across one in original fiction. I did run across one in an old Star Trek novel called Uhura's Song. The odd thing is that the first time I read the book I didn't think about it, and enjoyed the book. The second time I read it was after I'd started reading fanfiction and become familiar with the concept of a Mary Sue. I didn't reread the book expecting to find that, but when I did, the OC in the book seemed to match up in every way to the description of a Mary Sue, and unfortunately it kind of ruined my enjoyment of a book I'd previously liked.

Not sure if that's in any way helpful, but that's my one experience with a Mary Sue in published fiction. :S

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I read a Star Wars book with two characters that I now feel were very Mary Sue. It was supposed to be about Obi-wan and Anakin but focused more on these two female Jedi, where as Obi-wan and Anakin mostly argued the whole story and barely did much else. At the time, I didn't know the term Mary Sue existed, I just felt it wrong that the two women Jedi were hogging the spotlight from the main characters.

Mary Sue she be an actual literary term, up there with red herring.

[tringasolitaria.livejournal.com]

I've read a Star Trek book like that, where the book was focused more on the two women than on the ST characters. Oddly, in that situation it didn't bother me, but I guess it depends on how it's handled.

I think what bothered me in the first book was that the character was, well, a Mary Sue. :) If I'm remembering correctly, she was a better doctor than McCoy, could keep up with Spock's brain, could outmanuver Jim Kirk, and if I'm remembering correctly it seemed like all of them kind of had a crush on her. She also had a mysterious past, and was a skilled fighter. She wasn't gorgeous though-she was small and tough and sarcastic. Also, she took over a lot of the story, and was the one to figure everything out, instead of Kirk or Spock or McCoy. Or even Uhura, whose story it was supposed to be. Oh yeah, and she had a goddess she swore by alot. At the end, she vanished very mysteriously.

:) Yeah. It was actually kind of amusing, although also a little irritating.

[sholio]

I'm not sure if "larger than life" quite covers it, because a lot of fictional characters are larger than life (smarter, more attractive, more knowledgeable, better fighters than most people in real life) without being obnoxious about it. With Mary Sues, there's a sense of unreality about them, like they *shouldn't* exist, but none of the other characters seem to realize how very unlikely they are.

The one who immediately springs to mind is Agent Pendergast from Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child's "Relic" series of books. He's not 100% Mary Sue, but he certainly has aspects of it. He speaks dozens of languages, has a perfect photographic memory, studied martial arts at a Tibetan monastery (seriously!) so now he's better than anyone else at it, is a nearly perfect marksman, can read people's emotions so well that he's practically psychic, etc -- there is NOTHING he attempts in any of the books I've read that he's not fantastically good at, even if he's never done it before. He's always showing up the other characters by turning out to be better at their forte than they are; he notices clues that they miss, figures out things that they can't, is capable of doing things they aren't. He's fantastically wealthy and has got an evil brother who keeps coming back from the dead. His plans always work, and they're so unbelievably complicated that the other characters usually don't realize they're just acting out their roles in one of his schemes. (For example, in one book he was arrested and put in a maximum security prison, and the other characters spent about half the book trying to break him out, only to eventually learn that it was all part of his master plan and so were their own actions. Luckily for him, second-guessing people's actions to an almost supernatural degree is yet another thing he's really good at.)

He's just ... incredibly, incredibly difficult to swallow as a character. I wouldn't call him 100% Mary Sue because he does have vulnerabilities and he can sometimes be sympathetic as a character, but he's about as close to being a true Mary Sue as any character I can think of in published fiction.

[karri-kln1671.livejournal.com]

Freya from Thoughtcrimes is a Mary Sue. She could have recovered from her Mary Sue-ness when she got to the NSA if they'd made it more of a team effort, instead of Freya's solving/fixing/saving everything/everyone.