A Writerly Discussion

[kriadydragon]

I've been plagued by ideas of things I've been wanting to talk about but not being able to get my thoughts in a straight line to talk about them and I'm pretty sure a few of them might have ended up being controversial so...

Another writing discussion! Because I've recently come to realize - even after having been asked this question so many times and being unable to answer it - that when I get an idea for a story, it's the characters I develop first. I don't know why I've never noticed this before and dithered so much on deciding if I came up with the plot first or the characters. But it is, indeed, the characters that come first, followed by world building since much of my plots depend strongly on the world in which they take place (it can't just be a matter of bad guy seeking revenge on the world, it has to be he/she is seeking revenge because something about the world provoked them in negative ways).

I also used to think it was world building I would spend forever on. But, no. Again, it's the characters, because the plot and the world aren't interesting unless the characters are interesting, and I adore coming up with the characters' personality, back story and why they are the way they are. Whether I actually accomplish translating all that interesting onto the page is another matter, but they're certainly interesting in my head, and even if neither plot nor world come together the character always will (and then it leaves me sad when the plot or world won't work, because then I'm left with this awesome character drifting in a sea of fragmented plots, perhaps never to be used).

So which comes first for you? Character, plot, world?

Comments

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

"Another writing discussion!"

I love it when you pull these out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



"....the plot and the world aren't interesting unless the characters are interesting..."


((((((NODS)))))))).........the character IS central to a story that builds around them.
To do anything else would be like creating a world and then dropping characters into it.
I cannot imagine that at all nor would it even work.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Hee :D

I'm very much a character over plot reader, and one of my biggest pet peeves are stories set in these crazy, kooky, wonderful worlds but with characters flatter than a piece of cardboard that I don't give a fig about.

Now, whether or not I've accomplished making my own characters as interesting as the world they are in is something I worry over constantly. Because as much as I talk about making a character interesting, it sure as heck isn't easy. It's the little things that always trip me up, the things that help to sum up a character in few words as possible but cements the character in the reader's mind. So when the reader reads, the image, actions, inflections of the character pop almost naturally into the reader's head. Because I've also read books where you know the author tried so hard to make their characters interesting and... just weren't able to, and I worry about being that kind of author - trying, but mostly failing (which, of course, remains to be seen since not many - as in, more than one person - have read my recent original stories).

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

".....whether or not I've accomplished making my own characters as interesting as the world they are in is something I worry over constantly...."


No worries on that count.
I have lasting impressions of many of your characters, e.g. Maj and Ris....Morticia and others.
>;-)

[sholio]

It's an interesting back-and-forth process for me. The characters are by far the most important part of the whole thing, in terms of maintaining my interest (as a reader and a writer, actually). But I have this problem where I need to create characters with a plot in mind, or they kinda just wander around in search of a story. I have a number of characters and even whole casts that I created with no particular story in mind, and now they can't seem to settle into an actual plot. They're just ... there. On the other hand, I also have quite a few plot ideas that are lacking characters (now if I could just put the two together! but sadly, it doesn't work that way). I have to be able to brainstorm both together, and get my characters to fit my plot and vice versa, then flesh out the characters from there.

... no actually, come to think of it, now that I'm writing this, I think plot might be my weak spot all the way around. For the most part, it's characters and worlds that I have, and maybe there's a vague plot idea in there somewhere, but the specifics of the plot are probably the very last thing I come up with. For some reason it's way easier for me to come up with fanfic plots than original plots, possibly because I'm less worried about making it original, and more focused on just telling a good story.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

For the most part, it's characters and worlds that I have, and maybe there's a vague plot idea in there somewhere, but the specifics of the plot are probably the very last thing I come up with.

Yes! This is me exactly!

I think that, for me, a story begins as a random series of stuff happening revolving around a very vague concept, that concept mostly based on a certain desire to write a certain something. For example, there was a story I thought up last month that basically started out as my desire to write a fantasy set in a western setting and with a character partially covered in magic-related tattoos. I figured out both the character and the world in a matter of days. But the actual plot? Yeah, still mostly working that part out (I do have a plot, but it's still pretty sketchy at best). A story I'm currently working on started out as a desire to do something with a dragon rider in it, but not in a typical fantasy setting. And I'm only now starting to piece an actual plot together.

Plots seem to come in their own due time, and mostly when I have both the characters and the world figured out enough for A) character motivation and B) villain motivation or B2) some sort of catastrophe or conflict. I have yet for a story to start off in my head as "so there was this war..." Instead it usually starts off as "so there was this soldier..."

[bratfarrar]

*pokes you*

You should really post these discussions over at writers_lair, you know. Or at least post a link to back here.

As for me...I have a couple worlds I play in, which means I can mostly focus on character and plot--and the plot comes mainly from the characters, so there you go.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

This is one of those things where I kept meaning to but didn't and I don't know why. Now I'm trying to decide whether to post them one at a time or clump them all together and let people pick and choose which to participate in. But the will be linked to WL!

and the plot comes mainly from the characters,

This is how I suspect I actually operate, because as I mentioned to sholio I've yet to have a story start off with the war, so to speak. It starts off with the solider, and from there I figure out the war, or if there even is a war. I had one story that did begin with a plot, but as soon as I had the character figured out the plot ended up changing dramatically.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

The characters - in fact, I think the only way to create a good story is starting with the characters. Though there is one aspect of the plot, which might be there before the characters: The ending. I always knew exactly where I want a story to end (after all, one needs a basic idea, otherwise you have no idea what kind of characters you need).

Fanfiction are naturally a special case, because the characters are already there...but when you write one, you naturally chose a scenario which fits the characters, not the other way around.

I think, the basic idea is the egg, the characters are the sperm to give the idea the live, and what's growing of this is the plot. I don't know how often I had to change a plot I had in mind, because my characters decided to go into another direction. The fight Neal and Peter had at the end of "ConCurrent" is an example for that. That one wasn't planned at all, I just wanted to wrap up the story, but Neal and Peter being who they are, it just made sense to add the fight there. It practically wrote itself.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Though there is one aspect of the plot, which might be there before the characters: The ending. I always knew exactly where I want a story to end (after all, one needs a basic idea, otherwise you have no idea what kind of characters you need).

A big yes to this, although for me probably for different reasons - if I don't have an ending in mind, a goal for the story to reach, then the story is a pain to write. There has to be an ending in sight, even if the story ends up veering mostly away from that ending. But I still need those characters in place to help me figure out that ending.

But another although, it depends on the story, because sometimes I've thought up stories where I had both the characters and an ending in mind, sometimes at the same time.

The thing about any story is that you can bet it's going to deviate from your original plot. And, yes, mostly because of the characters. I love outlining to bits but I also have to leave enough room to allow for that change. Even in fanfiction I have no solid idea of how the characters will influence a scene until I get to that scene, so the story needs to be malleable enough to let things play out how they want to.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Which, I forgot to say, is why I think characters always come first for me, not just to get the immediate plot down in my head but to have them ready for when I'm ready to write the story. My current original story had been a breeze to write because I knew the characters pretty well, while my previous original was a pain, because I didn't give it enough time to let the characters really develop in my head, and it slowed the writing process down considerably.

[swanpride.livejournal.com]

I always have tons of notes about the characters, which never make it into the story. For White Collar, I've long lists of likes/dislike which were mentioned during the show. For ConSpire, I've notes for more of less every single painting I think Neal will/would do, but I doubt that I'll descripe all of them - and I know exactly why for example Sally is Cassandra and Alex is Pandora, but I don't think that I'll explain it for anyone of them. The explanation for June fit in, for the others most likely not (though it should be obvious for most of them).