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They made a movie out of the first book of His Dark Materials and I'm curious to see how they handle it. As surmised would happen, the contrversy has already begun.
If you haven't read the trilogy, much of the story deals with rather anti-religious themes. I'm Christian and I have read the books. Setting the religious aspects aside for a moment, Pullman has created quite a marvelous world, with well-rounded characters and conflicts. I especially loved (pretty much became obsessed with) the concept of the daemons - a peice of our souls made flesh in animal form. I sometimes like to think about what this person's or that person's daemon would look like (I'm pretty sure mine would be a cat.)
As for the religious aspects, things didn't start to really bother me until book three. Pullman uses a mix of doctrine (mostly Catholic doctrine) and fantasy in how he handles religion. If you're strong in your beliefs, faith (and depending on your beliefs) it's more bothersome and uncomfortable than offensive - at least to me it was. Pullman kind of pushes it in your face rather than using types and shadows like C.S. Lewis did in the Chronicles of Narnia. You can't help but see the anti-religious undertones and, if you are Christian, it makes the book a little less enjoyable to read. There were some things I had a big problem with (the portrayal of Satan as a good-guy and that he was actually doing right, for example) and some things I was like "yeah, I can understand that" (people using religion as a way to influence or get power - of course, what isn't mentioned is how that's more the fault of people, not the religion itself.) Still, it was easy for me to look at it as a fantasy world, and the Christian religion reorganized more into a fantasy religion (like an alternate universe where everything is the opposite).
Though the "religion is bad"undertones annoyed me, I pretty much ignored them to finish out the rest of the book. Book three I didn't like, but the story as a whole - that is, the characters' stories and not whatever message Pullman was trying to send concerning religion - I enjoyed.
However, though I don't mind recommending this book to adults, I definitely wouldn't recommend them for children, especially under the age of eleven and especially depending on your family's beliefs. Kids are pretty impressionable and the concept of this books is, to me, just a little too deep and complicated for them. I'm not saying that a child will automatically think "oh, since God is the bad guy in this book, then he must be bad." However, they could be troubled by it. Either that or just plain confused. Also, kids that young just aren't into books that complex, yet I always find it in the section for young readers at libraries and bookstores (adolescent and down). Though the main characters are kids, I felt this book more appropriate for teen and adult readers.
There's already groups petitioning that people boycott the movie out of concern that it will get kids to want to read the book. Nothing volatile as of yet, more like a "proceed with caution" kind of deal. As for myself, I do plan on seeing the movie out of curiosity and because I did enjoy the first two books. Really it's the parent's call as to whether they should let their kids read the books. Personally, I'd wait until they're older to let them read it. It's pretty heavy stuff for a supposed kids book.
As for the religious aspects, things didn't start to really bother me until book three. Pullman uses a mix of doctrine (mostly Catholic doctrine) and fantasy in how he handles religion. If you're strong in your beliefs, faith (and depending on your beliefs) it's more bothersome and uncomfortable than offensive - at least to me it was. Pullman kind of pushes it in your face rather than using types and shadows like C.S. Lewis did in the Chronicles of Narnia. You can't help but see the anti-religious undertones and, if you are Christian, it makes the book a little less enjoyable to read. There were some things I had a big problem with (the portrayal of Satan as a good-guy and that he was actually doing right, for example) and some things I was like "yeah, I can understand that" (people using religion as a way to influence or get power - of course, what isn't mentioned is how that's more the fault of people, not the religion itself.) Still, it was easy for me to look at it as a fantasy world, and the Christian religion reorganized more into a fantasy religion (like an alternate universe where everything is the opposite).
Though the "religion is bad"undertones annoyed me, I pretty much ignored them to finish out the rest of the book. Book three I didn't like, but the story as a whole - that is, the characters' stories and not whatever message Pullman was trying to send concerning religion - I enjoyed.
However, though I don't mind recommending this book to adults, I definitely wouldn't recommend them for children, especially under the age of eleven and especially depending on your family's beliefs. Kids are pretty impressionable and the concept of this books is, to me, just a little too deep and complicated for them. I'm not saying that a child will automatically think "oh, since God is the bad guy in this book, then he must be bad." However, they could be troubled by it. Either that or just plain confused. Also, kids that young just aren't into books that complex, yet I always find it in the section for young readers at libraries and bookstores (adolescent and down). Though the main characters are kids, I felt this book more appropriate for teen and adult readers.
There's already groups petitioning that people boycott the movie out of concern that it will get kids to want to read the book. Nothing volatile as of yet, more like a "proceed with caution" kind of deal. As for myself, I do plan on seeing the movie out of curiosity and because I did enjoy the first two books. Really it's the parent's call as to whether they should let their kids read the books. Personally, I'd wait until they're older to let them read it. It's pretty heavy stuff for a supposed kids book.
Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-11-28 05:51 pm (UTC)From: (Anonymous)However...
Anyone who has actually read the Bible - particulaly the Old Testament - will read things far more disturbing and just plain gross than Pullman's Dark Materials. Sodomy, child abuse, genocide... and Dark Materials is supposed to be bad for children? Personally I wouldn't let any child under thirteen read that stuff... it'll damage their faith far more than a book about daemons and talking bears.
Besides, what's wrong with a little healthy scepticism? Admitting that the Christian faith can be damaged by a children's book doesn't help the cause any...
( Sorry, Dragon, I actually came here to read your story not attack your faith... I had to do this anonymous cos Fanfic.net doesn't have an open ID, but my url is here - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/1127462/Gingercake
I have bad feelings about the responce to this :( )
Re: Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-11-28 10:21 pm (UTC)From:And there's a "chance" that the religious aspects might bother them (especially if they're Catholic), not that it will. Chances are good that it wouldn't even register. I'm not saying parents shouldn't let their kids read these books or read them these books, just to proceed with caution about it.
Personally, I thought the books more an attack on Catholicism, which is why I wasn't all that bothered with them since I'm not Catholic and don't share the same beliefs (Ex. We don't believe in original sin, which is a major arc in the story.) In fact, that's still an ongoing debate by many - whether the books are an attack on religion, regligious organizations, or Catholocism.
Usually, when I have a problem with something, there's always more than one reason why I have a problem with it.
As for the Bible, I will say this, if you're going to read your kids the Bible (because no way are they going to read it on their own) you need to have an understanding of it yourself in order to explain what needs to be explained. It's why my church offers a lot of classes that studies the scriptures, and why they encourage families to discuss what they've read. We're not a "this is how it is so just accept it and stop asking questions" faith. We're actually big about asking questions and encourage people to ask questions. You can't learn if you don't ask questions.
Re: Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-11-29 05:04 pm (UTC)From: (Anonymous)I agree, it is pretty deep for a kiddies book. Most won't understand some of the deeper meanings until they're much older, but that doesn't mean all of them will - I read Animal Farm when I was nine and understood most of the underlying themes. Banning or limiting its sale to younger children won't really help - if they dont understand it they dont understand it and that's that.
Re the attack on Catholisism, I'm going to admit right away I supported that from the start. I have a very poor view on organised religion (putting your beliefs into the hands of others is dicey at best, and the Catholic Church doesnt have a good track record when it comes to morals), and so was immensely cheered to think some Catholic-taught children were going to have a little skeptisism enter their lives ;) Besides which, while I tend to leave adults to their own affairs via supernatural belief, brainwashing young children into believing in deities is the worst form of psychological manipulation. Given the choice, I would certainly have not chosen to have my own Christian upbringing. All those wasted Sunday mornings for a start... :P
Relieved beyond all measure you're not a fundie - I dont really enjoy emails listing the punishments awaiting me in hell (*sigh*...). Mind you, I have a strong suspision the questions encouraged are more internalised than not - its beggers belief that your Church leaders are going to encourage a breakdown of the validity of their own sacred text. I suspect the underlying basis is the assumption that the Bible is a good book to base your life on.
Re: Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-11-29 11:00 pm (UTC)From:I'm not saying they should ban sales to that age group. I'm just saying that either the sales should be geared more toward the older age group (which they have) since they would probably get more sales from them, and that parents need to be cautious.
Okay, at the risk of sounding less than intelligent, I didn't understand much of that. If what you're saying is that my church encourages certain questions, that's not true. There aren't certain questions to be encouraged since discovering ones own faith is more an individual journey. We're taught what needs to be known, but not forced to believe it. I was born into the church, but it was a while before I developed firm beliefs, and not because I was forced to read the Bible or go to church every Sunday. It was something I did on my own, figured out on my own. At the same time, there are those born into the church who never really develope firm beliefs, but they aren't shunned or driven out or anything for it. It kind of defeats the whole concept of agency when a religion tries to force its beliefs on others.
And I'm actually with you about the Catholic Church. I respect all faiths - especially ones that teach love, compassion, family, well-being of others, etc (most religions do teach good stuff, it's the people that skew them). But the Catholic church... I don't know. I have nothing against Catholics individually. It's the things the Catholic church teaches that I have a probelm with, so much of it bordering on the mystical, as well as just plain confusing as well as contradictory to much of what's in the Bible.
Re: Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-11-29 11:50 pm (UTC)From:During translation of the King James version of the Bible, there were parts, here and there, either lost, slightly altered, or mis-translated. That's part of the reason why the members of the church I go to are encouraged to study and ask questions. The other reason because the messages and lessons within some passages and stories aren't obvious unless you look for them. You can't take the Bible at face value, you have to really dig deep.
Anyways, yeah. Hope that made sense. It actually surprises me that many faiths are "don't ask questions, just believe or go to hell!" Like you said, fundamentalists. Faith is something earned, not something you force on someone else.
Going back to the book, I'm not of the opinion that it should be banned or that kids shouldn't read them. They are good books, and though the last book I was "iffy" about, I did enjoy the world created. My meme was more of a "you should take this into consideration before reading or buying these books for your kids." And I do feel that they shouldn't be marketed toward pre-teens, but more because of the heavy themes involved. My younger sister, when she was in elementary and middle school, would bring home those little magazines selling books for kids, and I would find books like Lord of the Rings. Awesome as LOTR was, I didn't read the set until I was a senior, and even then it was heavy and involved reading. Not really something, I think, most kids would be able to get into. And I feel His Dark Materials to be the same way.
So it's not just a matter of whether or not the books will disturb (not because of gore, but because of subject matter) or get kids to question their faith, it's also a matter of marketing.
Re: Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-11-30 10:54 pm (UTC)From: (Anonymous)Forgive my ignorance, I live in the UK dont'cha know :) Home of tea breaks, rain, royal families, more rain and yorkshire pudding. And The Beetles!
My point about the church meetings was more about the questions that were *not* encouraged to be asked about the Bible, but its not really important.
Re: Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-12-01 12:00 am (UTC)From:Re: Pullman bad? What about the Bible?
Date: 2007-12-01 12:04 am (UTC)From: