FF.net - It ain't What it used to be

[kriadydragon]

I hate badmouthing FF.net because it was the site that introduced me to fanfiction. And there is still the occasional good fic or two on there, as well as good authors. But FF.net seems to have gone incredibly down-hill as of late. In part because most of my favorite authors (not all, but most) have mosied on over to LJ. Either that or have vanished from the SGA fandom all together. But for the most most part, it's because, like with the CSI:NY fandom, it's been taken over by shippers (just like CSI:NY) as well as Mary Sue/OC lovers with little to no writing skills. Which is very sad as I remember hopping over to the SGA fandom on FF.net and finding it chalked full of wonderful fic. Now I'm lucky to run into one or two good fic I haven't already read on LJ. Where have all the Shep-whumpers gone!

It's also becoming a pain to post in for comment-whores like myself, because if the story isn't chalked full of whump or romance, no one is really that interested, which is a bit of a beating for someone trying to improve their writing (I keep wondering what the heck I'm doing wrong.)

For that reason, I'm giving in to posting my stuff on LJ and occasionally on Wraithbait. Chapter fics I "may" continue posting on FF.net since having dial-up and issues with posts being too long aren't worth the hassle, and FF.net isn't as anal as LJ when it comes to how large a post is. But that's a big "may" as I prefer the more mature and thoughtful reviews on LJ as opposed to FF.net. For one, LJ comments are easier to respond to. For another, many of the readers on FF.net will comment on anything, no matter how bad it is, and say it's wonderful. Or, thanks to the anonymous feature that doesn't allow you to respond to responses, they feel it safe to be a complete snob.

I still explore FF.net for the occasional good fic that does pop up, but if I do post stories there, they're going to be few and far between.

Comments

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

OMG! You've been reading my journal! I ranted last night about those stoopid mary sue writers. It was over at FF.net where I became frustrated. That site has frustrated me for years. It's never let me creat an account, so I never posted my fics there.

As you say and I completely agree with you. I've gotten frustrated with shippers and mary sue writers. There are few and far between fics that I actually read there.

PS: a friend of mine just discovered the joys that are your fics (as well as some other writers) and I have been encouraging her to read your fics. You've never disappointed me.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

When I first started reading SGA, it was on FF.net and at that time the fandom was packed to bursting with awesome fic. There was always something to read everyday. Now it's nothing but Mary Sues and ship after ship after ship. I've given some of the het stuff a try, just to see if it's light and easy to ignore.

Big maistake. I always end up in a bad mood afterwards and forced to reread good fic just to get the crap out of my brain. In fact, the most reading I do on FF.net is of the fic in my faves list.

"PS: a friend of mine just discovered the joys that are your fics (as well as some other writers) and I have been encouraging her to read your fics. You've never disappointed me."

Thanks! Comments like that always make my day. I fear I'm one of those overly self-conscious authors who never think their stuff is good enough, so it's a never-ending joy (not to mention relief) to hear I don't suck after all ;)

[ninja007.livejournal.com]

I've even started staying away from Wraithbait as well as FF.net. The majority I seem to find there is McShep (I love slash, just not John/Rodney slash. They usually have John behaving so out of character that I want to scream) and John/Elizabeth (I never saw that pairing either). I still scan thru to see if there are any fics worth reading, but usually not. Same as FF.net. Scan thru and head out. I usually find all my fics here at Live Journal.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I was tempted to avopid Wraithbait for that same reason, but have since started archiving there, just to add to the gen list.

McShep on Wriathbait

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

**nods**
It is what first struck me when I first accessed it.....

[parisindy.livejournal.com]

for me what makes me sad is all the good writers have left and i can't find them anymore :(

have you ever thought about doing podfic?

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Exactly. there are still some good writers there but they don't post that often, and most post on LJ first.

How do you go about doing podfic? I don't even have an ipod.

[parisindy.livejournal.com]

you just need to get a recording program (i can send you a link if you want)
then you read your stories in to a mic on your computer (or ask someone else on site to read for you there are loads of volunteer's)
then upload them
and viola... audio books

its great i love it
have become totally addicted!!

here are some podfic sites if you want to check them out
http://community.livejournal.com/amplificathon/
http://jinjurly.com/audio/

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Cool.

[kristen999.livejournal.com]

I don't even look for fic there anymore. Actually except for a small group of writers, I only read in my 'circle' or whatever is rec'd on LJ or but I do try to keep up with anything GEN posted on the noticeboard.

I don't know what I'd do without recs!

I do still post on ff.net, sadly I think its easier with chapter fics and there are still a handful of readers who have stuck by me, who still don't use LJ.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

though I do try to give new authors a chance, I've been sticking strictly with authors I know and most of them are now on LJ. I also rely more on recs these days as well. I've also been doing some exploring on Del.icio.us since I heard so many people talk about it, and I've been finding good fic there as well. But I find myself drifting fruther and further from FF.net.

[kristen999.livejournal.com]

Did you find anything new and cool to share from Delicious?

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Yep, and posted it on Genrec.

[a-pilgrim-soul.livejournal.com]

Well you know my feelings on this from my post last night. I think from now on I shall stick with LJ for my own fic, most of the people who's opinion I care about post here and I'd rather have 1 thoughtful review than 10 "OMG! UR so Gr8" comments.

As for reading stuff there, I have a handful of favourite authors whom I get alerts for but I never visit there to browse anymore because the summaries alone leave me in need of brain soap they are so cringeworthy.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I still give FF.net a chance for the few good writers who still post there and not on LJ. And the Anonymous reviewer below made a good point - it is easier to find fic on FF.net than LJ.

Also, I think FF.net goes through dry spells, in that some months there's tons of good fic, and some months there aren't. Although the dry months have been stretching on longer than they usually do, which is why I've been drifting away. Plus, yes, the feedback. Personally, I'm tired of the crap feedback from people who review anonymously, making it impossible to respond.

[ga-unicorn.livejournal.com]

I think what has happened at ff.net (and a lot of the bigger archives) is the same thing that tends to happen with all the fandoms. The 'shippers, the slashers, the teenage emo writers...

(An aside... Can a 15 year old right decent angst? I don't think so, or at least very, very, very rarely. If I see a single writer posting a half dozen or more 500 word "stories" in a single day I know that nothing good will come of attempting to read any of it. I don't want to discourage them from writing, but I wish they would put some thought into what they are posting! Okay, whine finished.)

I still post there (when I manage to actually finish a story ::hangs head in shame::) and Wraithbait, but - unless ff.nets author notification is working and I get an email about one of my fave authors or I'm wanting to read one of my flagged favorites - I never go there to look for something to read. I have much better luck at LJ.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I've come across a few fifteen year olds that have done some pretty decent stories, as well as some who have wowed me. But they are very few and far between. And I cannot stand it when they choose whipping out stories over form and function, posting these short little chapters that you can tell the author didn't put a lot of throught into.

As I said in my post, the same thing happened to the CSI:NY fandom, only that one became dominated by nothing but shippers. Reading other fic in the same fandom helps to motivate me to write my own fic, so the lack of good fic kind of snuffed my motivation to write in that fandom.

ff.net

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

I have not been at ff long enough to know what has happened to ff.net.
The ff I have picked up has been very good, but probably due to the fact that they were written sometime ago.
I must admit that looking at the new stuff listed under SGA; it
does lack imagination.
:P
If I read at ff.net or here on LJ, I always comment. On ff.net I may comment several times if the tale is lengthy. HOWEVER, they have meaning, not just to hear my head rattle. I think writers deserve feedback for their work.
If is is not what I want to read I realize it early enough that I delete it and move on. I see no reason to nag someone because I do not find their material interesting or unacceptable for whatever reason.

Re: ff.net

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I used to be very supportive of writers, especially new ones, and would comment on just about anything even if I didn't totally like it. After a while of reading, though, you kind of develope your own taste that makes you a heck of a lot more picky and a lot less willing to comment on just anything.

There are some stories I just can't read or comment on, such as Rodney whump, stories chalked full of fanon cliches, or stories that portray a fave character in a way I don't like. For example, I used to not mind Shep-whump stories where Sheppard is forced to open up and purge his demons in order to heal him. Now I can't stand those kind of stories because I hate the way Sheppard is treated in them (usually like a spoiled brat that needs to be reprimanded.)

Sheppard is forced to open up and purge his demons in order to heal him

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

Why should he?
Very few people do that, no matter what haunts them.........
They protect themselves no matter and suffer the consequences.

Re: Sheppard is forced to open up and purge his demons in order to heal him

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Sheppard in a situation where his control is taken away, only to be rescued and returned home only to have more control taken from him when he is forced to open up - you would think it would make things worse, not better.

What really frustrates me, though, is that no one has really explored the the consequences of forced deom-purging. At least I don't think they have. I would really like to read a story - or write one - one of these days that deals with that very thing.

[(Anonymous)]

There is definitely a wealth of cringe-causing, shudder-inducing fan fiction on ff.net, but I find it occasionally worthwhile. I do hate to see good authors leave it, because stories by people like you tend to be a bright point in the overwhelmingly shipped-up, distorted, and misspelled throng of "stories" that too often populate the site. It also tends to be helpful for those of us who do not have livejournals to read through ff.net. I cannot abide browsing anymore -- my method for finding something good to read is to search for one exceptional author and follow his or her favorites list as a means of bypassing things that don't interest me. It is somewhat more difficult to do this on other sites. For the most part, though, I agree about the shortcomings of ff.net. Livejournal offers a more interactive, inviting way of commenting, and can provoke actual conversations. It's a shame, really, that the moderators at ff.net have allowed the site's formatting to become so archaic, and haven't taken a cue from the discontent of its best writers. The vast exodus, I would think, should have been a hint about the need for change.

(An aside to respond briefly to ga_unicorn's aside: I don't think the degradation of ff.net is due in any part to a particular age group. I say this mostly because I know some truly exceptional fifteen-year-old writers, and some absolutely dismal forty-year-old ones. It is only that the incredible immensity of the site means we get something of a talent bell curve, and the bulk of mediocre is disheartening and leads to the departure of many of the more gifted writers.)

Ultimately, ff.net is an excellent place to get started in fanfiction, and sometimes it's worth the frustration, although it can be discouraging to see that so many writers who post there have such little respect for the art they claim.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

That is what I like about FF.net - how easy it is to find stories. It's a bit of a risk searching LJ and elsewhere for fics as many people will either mis-label a story or not label it at all. I was nearly scared off from LJ and the SGA fandom after accidentally stumbling on fic after fic full of my worst squicks.

Although Wraithbait is very slash dominated, their policies that ensure better quality fic are what I like about them. I've explored most of the Gen stories on Wriathbait and have yet to run into anything that reads like it was written by a ten-year-old with a major Mary-sue fetish. Their policies I kind of wish FF.net would adopt, although I understand why it would be difficult since FF.net is such a huge site with a lot of fandoms, while Wriathbait is a single fandom.

Oh well.

[sholio]

I regret abandoning ff.net. It's a great concept, and a huge site, and for a long time it's been my first stop when I enter a new fandom.

But you're absolutely right. The good stories are drowned out by dreck, and the good authors, with some exceptions, seem to have headed for the hills. For the last week or so, I've been plunging into a new fandom (Life on Mars) and I could hardly find a single readable fic on ff.net despite searching the entire LoM section. I had to go elsewhere for my fic-reading needs.

For me as a writer, after putting up with their increasingly difficult policies since 2000, I finally decided to stop posting fic there after the great reformatting o'doom back in March. If a site is going to reformat my old stories without warning or notification, thus rendering many of them almost unreadable, I don't want to deal with them anymore. Considering their callous treatment of their userbase along with their ridiculously restrictive controls on text formatting, I don't think it's any surprise that a lot of the better authors prefer to post elsewhere. It's really ridiculous that ff.net has probably the most restrictive formatting requirements of any archive or user-generated-content site (e.g. message boards, blogs) that I've dealt with, and yet it doesn't do a thing to improve the quality of the fic that's posted there.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

The only reason I still post there from time to time is two reasons - 1: I think dial-up makes it tricky for me to post long one-shots on LJ, so I'm forced to divide them up, but I don't have to do that on FF.net. 2: There are still readers there who either don't know about LJ or can't set up an account for one reason or another. But even number two is changing what with everyone eaither leaving the fandom itself for other fandoms or going elsewhere for fic.

But I don't think it'll be long before I decide not to post there ever again, and the only reason I stick around FF.net is for my faves list and the occasional good author who posts only there. But once those authors start going, then it'll be my faves list that'll be the only reason I'll pop in from time to time.

[obsessed1o1.livejournal.com]

I still post on FF.net, but onyl because not everyone is on livejournal...but more and more i tend to post on Livejournal now.

You're right. When it first came online it was full of wonderful and most inportantly, "high standard" fic. Now it seems to have degraded into Shipper/slash/OC Mary Sue/drabble/completely weird AU/crossover crap! The good authors get swamped by "authors" who insist on posting 50 million drabbles a day where little or no thought has gone into them, let alone a spellcheck!!

I also get infuriated by names being spelt incorrectly, "Ronin, Tailor, Shepard, Mackay."

Ff.net no longer seems to be full of high quality fiction; it's been overrun by PAP!

I find that on livejournal the overlall atmosphere and the quality of fic is much better. The reviews are more thoughtful, with authors/readers leave feedback that is helpful/insightful/encourageable/full of useful constructive critiscm etc etc.

I love getting reviews at Fanfic.net and i don't want to discourage ppl, but i cannot abide getting reviews that just say "gr8t" or "post more" "post now." It's this attitude which has taken over Ff.net and therefore produces low standard fiction. You know the better authors, (See my userinfo list :D) take time to think about how something will effect a character, the setting and the overall tone of the story.

Its this littany of "hurry up" "Quick" "I need mores" that frustrates me. I'm not going to hurry up - i'm going to take my time!

So yeah, it's not the same as it used to be. This in itself disappoints me because it's such a fantastic concept. It's a shame there isn't any kind of quality control...or that it's operated by faceless moderators. At least with Livejournal you have that advantage and you can control the content.

Oh well...

Woah.....serious rant there....No doubt full of spelling mistakes, grammatical errors etc.....i'm tired and hot and a little angry! that's my excuse and i'm sticking to it ;)

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

"I still post on FF.net, but onyl because not everyone is on livejournal..."

That's the only reason I still post there from time to time.

"The good authors get swamped by "authors" who insist on posting 50 million drabbles a day where little or no thought has gone into them, let alone a spellcheck!!"

Yep, that's another reason I get frustrated with it. I've gotten a lot of reviews over the past few months about how - days, even months after posting the story - the reviewer only just now discovered my story. And the same has happened to me: a story by a good author is posted but I don't discover it until long after the fact, or because another author has it on their faves list.

And the reviews. The "please hurry up!" don't bother me but the "you have many spelling errors you need to fix" (sans any kind criticism) drive me up the wall. I think that, more than anything, is what's driving me further and further from FF.net. Because a person can post anonymously, preventing the wuthor from responding, they think they can say whatever they want and not get roasted for it. Plus, when you're somone who's trying to get published and is therefore very self-conscious about your work, always trying to do better, it doesn't help one's confidence any to get "that story was so awesome!" by people who leave the same reviews on poorly written, Mary-Sue dominated fic where the chapters are only a hundred words each and everyone's name is misspelled (or everyone is OOC).

And always feel free to rant. It does help you feel better ;)

Fanfic Go Boom

[(Anonymous)]

I've written fan fiction for a very long time now (longer than a decade in various guises). Unfortunately the general trend for fan fiction seems to be this...

1) TV show has first and second season. Viewers who are on the look-out for something fresh and quirky watch it. They quickly turn into fans.

2) Fans from first (and sometimes second) season start producing fan fiction. It's a small community usually made up of people who love writing, and if they could, would love to write a script for the show. But they can't, so they settle for fanfic. Consequently the fiction is of a high quality.

3) The rest of the public finds the show. Rest of public not so interested in writing, just wish fulfillment. Bad fic starts to creep in based on the strange fantasies of bored housewives, romance novel enthusiasts, teenagers, and stoned college students. None of these groups can spell.

4) Show becomes more popular, quality of fic plummets. It's actually inversely proportional.

5) Terrible fan fiction overwhelms the original fanfic writers who leave in disgust to find a new playground.

The classic example of this phenomenon is The X-Files.

Depressing but inevitable. Sigh.