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I obsess over characterization, so sue me. Well, actually, don't because you won't get anything.
John Sheppard is a dork but he is not stupid. The man does make mistakes but a lot of people seem to be getting on the band wagon of him being a moron, when he's usually the one coming up with the ideas that save the day and, of course, McKay makes them happen.
I'm just kind of venting here, so feel free to ignore me. I take characterization seriously and when I see a character portrayed in fanfic (or even on a show) that contradicts how that character has been developed, it tends to irk me. I know part of characterization is in the eye of the beholder, but to me there are certain aspects that seem blatantly obvious yet I feel like the only one who's noticed.
For example, it's popular in the fics to have John play down his injuries to the point where he almost kills himself. Sticking to him not being an idiot, no way would he do this! I mean, unless they are in the middle of a crisis, he will get medical help since he knows good and well people depend on him. Another popular thing to do with him is have everyone dump and rag on him because he risked his life to save theirs. Come on, people, he's a soldier and it's what he does. What would you have him do, step aside and let the intended victim take the bullet after all? I think his team should be a little more grateful to him that he saved their lives. McKay might be petulant about it at first, but even he should be made to come around and show some appreciation. Instead, the writers have the team put him down, and he smiles like it's okay. I don't buy it.
Also, John does stick up for himself more when he and Rodney snark. He doesn't always grin and bear it. If Rodney tells him to shut up, John will bristle and snap back. I've seen that very thing happen many times in many episodes.
John is not a jerk. If Rodney says something is wrong, Sheppard will listen because he acknowledges that Rodney is a genius. I believe that it is Rodney's ego John doesn't trust, not Rodney himself. I felt that in the episode Trinity, Sheppard, out of everyone, had a right to be mad at McKay, yet came out being nicer about it, giving Rodney a chance to redeem himself. I saw this as a character building/change moment for Rodney, so those stories that have Rodney apologizing for blowing John's trust, and John apologizing for not trusting Rodney, don't sit well with me. If John didn't trust Rodney then he wouldn't have gotten into the pod in Aurora. To me, saying 'no' when Rodney asks "don't you trust me?" could be looked at as a way to keep him in line ego-wise. Sheppard also strikes me as a man who doesn't trust easily but wants to, so for Rodney to ask for his trust, for John to give it, and for it to be blown to heck, was a set back for John in his effort to show trust. So of course he'd be upset and not give it so easily.
Rodney doesn't know everything, especially when it comes to making people feel better (although he is actually sweet about it when he tries, and he does try). In fact my mom keeps saying that he's usually the one getting them all into trouble. And yelling at Sheppard for the sake of his mental health would actually do more harm then good. I don't know why people do this except to use as a quick fix to make everything hunky-dory again. It's kind of why I've come to like the endings where everything isn't fine, but you know it will or at least might be eventually.
This is how I look at things, so vouch it as neither wrong nor right, just an opinion that I'm sure some may disagree with and some agree with.
A good example of a show kind of butchering their own character is Numbers. I used to really love Charlie Eppes' character and still do, but what I liked about his character was kind of smeared for me when in one episode they have him making out with some British chick. They had him coming across as a practical suave Romeo when all this time I thought Charlie was socially akward and shy. It was what I liked about him, the child-like innocence portrayed in the first season, but that episode kind of ruined it for me (which is why the episode does not exist for me).
I know this may sound like I'm getting all upset over piddly little things (hey, it's TV, it is piddly) but there is a lesson to be learned from this. Seeing how characters can be interpreted, or misinterpreted, and altered for the sake of wanting to have something happen (i.e a make out scene) it makes you realize how precarious characterization can be. When developing a character, one should pay close attention to them, come to understand them, to know what things they would do and what things they wouldn't. As a character grows, traits develope that may sometimes go unnoticed, and suddenly you're having your character doing something that (had you been paying attention) they really shouldn't have done (Ex. the character has an aversion to blood and violence yet ends up sticking his/her hands into someone's guts without compunction. Yeah, hefty example but it works. Said traits would actually be a little less obvious.)
When borrowing other people's characters for fanfic, pay close attention to how they come off in the shows, not how they are portrayed in fanfics, what people say about them in forums, or how you would 'like' them to be just to fulfill some plot need that would otherwise be impossible if the characters stayed in character. That is, if you're going with canon. I've read stories, mostly character studies, looking at aspects of the character that make them out to be something they aren't, yet very well could be, making for very fascinating 'what-ifs'. I also know that no one can be one-hundred percent acurate with the characters. Heck, I tend to make Rodney too nice, mostly because if I didn't I could very well end up writing a scene where I have John punch him for me. Because if Rodney were here being condescending to me, that's probably what would end up happening.
I've also yet to hear Rodney call John an idiot or moron. I'm not saying he wouldn't I'm just saying I've yet to hear it, but I am still stuck in season two. If Rodney did, I'm pretty sure Sheppard would slap him in the back of the head for it.
John Sheppard is a dork but he is not stupid. The man does make mistakes but a lot of people seem to be getting on the band wagon of him being a moron, when he's usually the one coming up with the ideas that save the day and, of course, McKay makes them happen.
I'm just kind of venting here, so feel free to ignore me. I take characterization seriously and when I see a character portrayed in fanfic (or even on a show) that contradicts how that character has been developed, it tends to irk me. I know part of characterization is in the eye of the beholder, but to me there are certain aspects that seem blatantly obvious yet I feel like the only one who's noticed.
For example, it's popular in the fics to have John play down his injuries to the point where he almost kills himself. Sticking to him not being an idiot, no way would he do this! I mean, unless they are in the middle of a crisis, he will get medical help since he knows good and well people depend on him. Another popular thing to do with him is have everyone dump and rag on him because he risked his life to save theirs. Come on, people, he's a soldier and it's what he does. What would you have him do, step aside and let the intended victim take the bullet after all? I think his team should be a little more grateful to him that he saved their lives. McKay might be petulant about it at first, but even he should be made to come around and show some appreciation. Instead, the writers have the team put him down, and he smiles like it's okay. I don't buy it.
Also, John does stick up for himself more when he and Rodney snark. He doesn't always grin and bear it. If Rodney tells him to shut up, John will bristle and snap back. I've seen that very thing happen many times in many episodes.
John is not a jerk. If Rodney says something is wrong, Sheppard will listen because he acknowledges that Rodney is a genius. I believe that it is Rodney's ego John doesn't trust, not Rodney himself. I felt that in the episode Trinity, Sheppard, out of everyone, had a right to be mad at McKay, yet came out being nicer about it, giving Rodney a chance to redeem himself. I saw this as a character building/change moment for Rodney, so those stories that have Rodney apologizing for blowing John's trust, and John apologizing for not trusting Rodney, don't sit well with me. If John didn't trust Rodney then he wouldn't have gotten into the pod in Aurora. To me, saying 'no' when Rodney asks "don't you trust me?" could be looked at as a way to keep him in line ego-wise. Sheppard also strikes me as a man who doesn't trust easily but wants to, so for Rodney to ask for his trust, for John to give it, and for it to be blown to heck, was a set back for John in his effort to show trust. So of course he'd be upset and not give it so easily.
Rodney doesn't know everything, especially when it comes to making people feel better (although he is actually sweet about it when he tries, and he does try). In fact my mom keeps saying that he's usually the one getting them all into trouble. And yelling at Sheppard for the sake of his mental health would actually do more harm then good. I don't know why people do this except to use as a quick fix to make everything hunky-dory again. It's kind of why I've come to like the endings where everything isn't fine, but you know it will or at least might be eventually.
This is how I look at things, so vouch it as neither wrong nor right, just an opinion that I'm sure some may disagree with and some agree with.
A good example of a show kind of butchering their own character is Numbers. I used to really love Charlie Eppes' character and still do, but what I liked about his character was kind of smeared for me when in one episode they have him making out with some British chick. They had him coming across as a practical suave Romeo when all this time I thought Charlie was socially akward and shy. It was what I liked about him, the child-like innocence portrayed in the first season, but that episode kind of ruined it for me (which is why the episode does not exist for me).
I know this may sound like I'm getting all upset over piddly little things (hey, it's TV, it is piddly) but there is a lesson to be learned from this. Seeing how characters can be interpreted, or misinterpreted, and altered for the sake of wanting to have something happen (i.e a make out scene) it makes you realize how precarious characterization can be. When developing a character, one should pay close attention to them, come to understand them, to know what things they would do and what things they wouldn't. As a character grows, traits develope that may sometimes go unnoticed, and suddenly you're having your character doing something that (had you been paying attention) they really shouldn't have done (Ex. the character has an aversion to blood and violence yet ends up sticking his/her hands into someone's guts without compunction. Yeah, hefty example but it works. Said traits would actually be a little less obvious.)
When borrowing other people's characters for fanfic, pay close attention to how they come off in the shows, not how they are portrayed in fanfics, what people say about them in forums, or how you would 'like' them to be just to fulfill some plot need that would otherwise be impossible if the characters stayed in character. That is, if you're going with canon. I've read stories, mostly character studies, looking at aspects of the character that make them out to be something they aren't, yet very well could be, making for very fascinating 'what-ifs'. I also know that no one can be one-hundred percent acurate with the characters. Heck, I tend to make Rodney too nice, mostly because if I didn't I could very well end up writing a scene where I have John punch him for me. Because if Rodney were here being condescending to me, that's probably what would end up happening.
I've also yet to hear Rodney call John an idiot or moron. I'm not saying he wouldn't I'm just saying I've yet to hear it, but I am still stuck in season two. If Rodney did, I'm pretty sure Sheppard would slap him in the back of the head for it.
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no subject
Date: 2007-04-06 10:48 pm (UTC)From:I'm not sure what set off the rant for you, but I agree with so much of what you wrote. One of the things that turned me off of alot of SG1 fanfic was a tendency to portray O'Neill as an ignorant doofus instead of a complex, dark character who tends to hide behind irreverence. Unfortunately, I see a lot of the same wrong tendencies showing up in SGA fanfic.
What I have noticed is that often (not always) when the fic goes in this direction, the writer portrays all of the military characters as not as intelligent as the non-military ones. I suspect that this is just a personally held prejudice of the writer. They seem to fail to comprehend that people who join the military are no less/more intelligent, no less/more arrogant, no less/more ignorant than any other human being. We all have foibles, weaknesses, strength.
My favorite fics hold the characters close to canon. I'm not into 'ship or slash, unless the characters are portrayed that way in the show. Although I do read stories other than canon, they won't usually make my fave listings. For me, fandom has always been about sharing characters I love as they are in the tv show (book, movie, etc), not about changing them to fit my ideal. When I write I try to keep my characters sounding like the "real" ones, sometimes with better results than others...
no subject
Date: 2007-04-07 05:16 am (UTC)From:I think it's more than them just being military, but also the hero. The hero, for the most part, has always been portrayed as brawny, good-looking, but not all that smart because they 'think with their heart too much'. While the villains are the smart ones. But that's what makes characters like Jack and Sheppard unique. Yeah, they are passionate and think with their hearts, but they are not stupid. O'Neill comes across as a bit of a doofus, but is in fact clever, the kind of guy who thinks two steps ahead and knows when to keep his mouth shut. Sheppard is Mensa, for crying out loud! And understands half the science-lingo Rodney is always spewing. Plus, as mentioned above, John is always the one coming up with the ideas that save the day.
Though I'm a big supporter of creative licensing, sometimes I long for a rule that says 'canon only' when it comes to writing fanfic (although AUs could be exempt, namely the ones that stay in the universe but reveal the what-ifs and could-have-beens.) People are free to write what and how they want, but the levels that people reach of making the characters out of character is almost nauseating, and makes you wonder if they pay attention to the show at all.
Some might say I'm being kind of anal about it, but if these were my characters, I'd be pretty ticked that people were srewing up their personalities and places in the story.
I actually ponder whether or not to open my stories for audiences to write fanfiction or not (should my stories become popular.) I'm undecided now, but have been leaning heavily toward 'no'. I'm kind of protective of my characters and would hate to see them get smeared.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-08 12:17 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-04-08 02:27 am (UTC)From:And it happened again today. I ran across one of those stories that's a blatant, irritating "poor woobie McKay because John's being a jerk to him" story. I can't stand those. Even the John centered stories I read don't make McKay as much of a jerk as those fics make Sheppard. I guess it ticks me off because the authors who write such stories aren't having any consideration for the Sheppard fans. I'm not a big McKay fan, myself, but I don't go out of my way to make him scum, because I know other people like him and he's not a bad guy.
Man I do write long-winded responses. Sorry.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-08 02:51 am (UTC)From:no subject
Date: 2007-04-08 04:17 am (UTC)From:I really gotta stop letting this stuff bother me.
no subject
Date: 2007-04-19 08:21 pm (UTC)From:It's funny about the idiot comment, because it's coming up in one of my chapters. You know I'll be rechecking to see if it stays in character!
no subject
Date: 2007-04-19 09:40 pm (UTC)From:I think it's a bandwagon complex. A lot of writer see what everyone else is doing, and go by that instead of letting the actual show be the guide.
Then there's butchering one character in order to create a story that heaps sympathy onto another character. I see this a lot with McKay centered fics. I like to call them the "Poor woobie Mckay" stories, where they have Sheppard being a total jerk, ignoring McKay, and McKay feeling all depressed. Bunch of crap. Sheppard always listens to McKay, even when he's yelping about a hangnail. I like McKay but I'm not his biggest fan, and sometimes he annoys me, but even I don't write him as some heartless jerk like some people write Sheppard. I find it rather unfair to Sheppard fans.
I'm pretty sure McKay has yet to call Sheppard an idiot in canon, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't. I get the impression that McKay had wanted to pin Sheppard as a dumb grunt since he isn't fond of soldiers, so would call him an idiot in retribution that Sheppard is, in fact, very intelligent. Just another way for Rodney to vent kind of thing. so though it's not really canon, it's still kind of in character for him. It's just that some people take it too far, like having Shep smile about it rather than defend himself (of which your stories don't do. Sheppard has reacted to being called an idiot rather than putting up with it).
Phew! Another long winded response. I type too much.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-02 12:27 pm (UTC)From: