Intermission - Thoughts on Whumping.

[kriadydragon]

To whump or not to whump?

Actually, I've never written or thought up a story where somenoe doesn't get whumped, and I'm talking in both original stories and fanfic. I can't help it, I love whump. But because I like torture, violence, get a kick out of someone getting the crap beat out of them? I've been thinking on it lately and I've come to realize that it's none of the above. I like whump because, as a plot device (rather than as the plot) it makes for some interesting outcomes. I've come to realize this since I've started writing many a fanfic in which I skip the hurt entirely and move straight on to the comfort. The whump is hinted at, with tid-bits through out the rest of the story instead of chapter after chapter of whumping details that aren't really necessary in the long run. Because it really isn't about the whump, it's about overcoming the whump. Or at least for me it is.

Putting a main character through the wringer really does generate a lot more interest for that character. It can't be helped. Even though you already know he makes it out alive, you still want to see it happen. But more than that, you want to see the results. You want to see if this breaks him/her (okay, let's be honest, him) or strengthens him. That's just one purpose for having whump in a story.

Personally, despite my tendancy to prefer shoot-'em-up action over romance and feel-good stuff, I like the mushy comfort aftermath of some pretty bad whump. Not so much for the sympathy aspect but because I like stories in which characters show kindness to eachother, help eachother heal, but without getting drenched in sugar-coated fluff about it. For me, that's why I love doing Stargate Atlantis stories. John is fun to whump and Rodney - as the concerned friend during the comfort scenario  - is the kind of character that has a lot of growing potential. His rude, abrasive, etc. He's generally not a kind person. So when thrust into a situation in which he is forced to be kind, he grows as a person, comes to better himself even if he isn't all that good at showing his concern. And in a lot of stories, that's what it's all about - character gorwth, character learning. We even see this on the actual show. Where as he started off as a character meant to be a haughty jerk not meant to be liked, we come to gradually like him as his abrasive self is set aside when he is faced with situations where he must be their for others, focus on others rather than himself. I love stuff like that. I love character growth, especially when that character starts off as unlikeable and grows to become likeable. Whump provides a means for such a growth.

Whump is also a good way to establish a character's personality from the start. My original character, Amrin, is a good example of this as he is very shy, timid, and uncertain because he was abused for a very large portion part of his life. Another character of mine (for a story yet to be written) starts off as the rather cliche hero (albeit a bit shy) until he is falsely accused, sent to prison, and tortured. The year-long isolation and cruelty inevitably change him, not to someone dark, bitter, and violent, but to someone who doesn't trust easy, dangerous, cautious, and just a little strange in a way that make people wary of him. Of course, it's not the torture that defines him, but the entire experience of being wrongly accused and imprisoned. But the torment he suffers plays a very large part, even endwoing him with unusual quirks such as avoiding physical contact and having quicker reflexes, especially when someone tries to strike out at him. So as you can see, I don't merely whump someone and have them get over it. There are long term effects that makes the character who he is.

All in all, I don't whump for the sake of whumping. I do admit to getting pretty vicious about it, but if the whump, whether big or small, doesn't lead the characters and the readers somewhere, then there's no point in having it. I've thought up many a whump fic that goes no where, so I never write it.

Although whump is popular, and I will read it whether it's used as the plot or a plot device, whumping is better off being used as a plot device. The best whump stories I've read are those that have the characters put through a traumatic event then dealing with it afterwards. The comfort/ healing part doesn't have to go on for many chapters. Heck, the healing doesn't even have to happen. Some of my favorite stories are the ones where nothing is resolved since most problems can't be resolved over night, but you are left with the impression that, eventually, there will be a resolution. In some stories, there's a resolution, but it's not a good one. Kodiak Bear Country's "It's Always Autumn in the Old Trees of Despair", Baroqy's "Honor Bound" Friendshipper's (Sholio's) "Running on Empty" and Pilgrim Soul's "Keeping the Faith" are just a few examples of stories with great whump and great whump after-math. Drufan's endings lead us into whole new stories and adventures later on. Alipeeps whumps the crap out of Shep, but even if there isn't a comfort/healing aftermath, the whump itself is so much more than whump for the sake of it. It is used to bring out emotions in the characters not usually seen. AnCa has a story that uses the whump as a catalyst for some great emotional anguish - Sheppard is hurt, Teyla must help him, but she's having one heck of a hard time aiding John while keeping herself together. It's not even complete, but it's beautiful stuff. In some parts, you're almost in tears for both John and Teyla.

Whumping for the sake of whumping, from what I've seen, is extensive descriptions of someone having the crap beat out of them with no after math, not even any insight into what the victim is going through mentally. I've read stories where we have John stoically taking a beating, making snappy comebacks, handling it all with aplomb, then being sarcastic to his team because they took their sweet time about rescuing him, then skipping to John being all better and happy, and ending there. Most would say it's simply the writer living out a fetish, getting their kicks over broken bones and blood, which is probably true. To me, it stirkes me more as the writer being lazy, or naive on how to handle emotional fallout. They want the torture, but since they don't know how to handle the after math, they fall back on the larger-than-life hero who laughs in the face of danger. Come on, the least we could have is a few nightmares, maybe a heartfelt thanks to the team for rescuing him, an overwhelming sense of being safe once again, or some introspection as he's being tortured. Without the aftermath, the trauma, even the nightmares, the story is pretty much pointless. It's a scene from a story, not an actual story.

I think the same could be said for any device, genre, etc - including romance: het or slash. I don't read either but I've come across discussions involving both. You have stories where both are used as plot devices to either change a character, study them, make a statement or to bring out certain emotions in the character. Then you have stories where they exist merely to have a sex scene and indulge in sexual fantasies. Whump can be the same way. Hurt for the sake of hurting or hurt in order to guide the story in a certain direction, change characters, bring out emotions, etc. When you do the former, it's a self-indulgent fantasy. The latter makes for great reading.

It's all about the plot. If you're going to whump someone, make it count, milk it's potential for all it's worth.

Well, I think I've rambled on quite nicely. Drop a line if you'd like to add your Two-cents. Just please be nice about it. Flames are never welcome and these are opininated musings, not something I'm stating as fact. I know there are a lot of views concerning whump. This one's just my view.

Comments

[dragonfairymaid.livejournal.com]

Interesting thoughts. I found that I read whump basically for the same reason you write it. Where it takes the characters in the end. I think though, the for me it is more the closeness and comraderie that the saving and healing brings. In fact, I use to feel guilty about liking whump(liking people being hurt)but I started to notice the stories I liked where the ones that took the characters somewhere in their development and friendship and then discovered that though I am a loner, I crave the closeness the friends developed through their close encounters with death and dying and I get that through the Whump Fics. Interesting! So I have pondered do the fics fill in what other people are missing in their lives or is it just me? Have I wandered off too much?

The best stories and the ones I re-read and save are all deal with the individual and team growth and you do that so well, as well as doing it creatively.

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

I always thought, until recently, that I whumped because I was a sicko with a fetish or something. It wasn't so much writing Fanfic that made me realize the true purpose of the whump, but reading it. Like with you, I found myself enjoying more those stories where the whump led to excellent comfort and bonding moments, or at least moments of introspection. Whump alone meant nothing.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, you're probably going to disagree with me here and feel free to delete this entry if you so wish. First off, I enjoy reading whump stories and agree with most of your favorite selections such as Kodiak Bear's Autumn and Sholio's Running on Empty. They are beautifully written stories showing the journey of the characters with intricate and intelligently written plots. But I've been following AnCa's story and I see nothing there but pure unadulterated whump. Sure the trauma that Teyla feels for John is there, real, awful and vividly written, but after chapters and chapters of the same thing, I feel that this is whump just for the sake of whump and nothing else. This is for me, is a perfect example of "chapter after chapter of whumping details that aren't really necessary in the long run." I thought this story echoed very similar to Alipeeps story about John stabbed through the body and caught in a rumble of a house. Maybe because the whump on both stories seemed to drag on and on, with almost no ease of pain for the hero, to the point of 'enough already!' Sorry, I hope you and others here don't take this as a flame or even as disrespect to these writers – as they are good writers granted. I'm sure many readers like these stories, but I found your definition of liking whump different for mine. While I enjoy whump, I don't like it to the point where we get more than half a dozen chapters of nothing else but the heroes agonizing in pain, with no progression onwards and little relief and not even a break from it. I see that as fetish whump and I feel that the example of AnCa's story is the perfect example of this (in fact, even the writer herself seems to imply it – or at least writing it for her friend Rachel). To me whumping for the sake of whumping can be both mental as well as physical pain. While I would read it (to see how it would end), ultimately, the story doesn't do anything for me, nor would I consider it my favorite or read it again. There has to be more plot than just that. Just my humble opinion on whump, that is, seeing that you brought up the subject.

However, saying that, I agree with you on other aspects - there are certainly worse stories out there with no consequences of the whump or worse yet, the writer whumps the hero terribly for several chapters and not knowing how to save the hero, kills him or her off in the end. That's the worse category of whump which I would categorize as 'evil and lazy whump' just for the sake of whump! But somehow, if it's a one-off and the hero dies as a result of doing something heroic, that in my book would be more than whump - for his or her death would have meaning. But if he were captured, whumped and killed, that defines pure unadulterated whump of the worst kind.

Reading now

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Actually, I don't disagree with you. AnCa did state, clearly, that her story was a pure whump fic. It's just that, for me, it was different from most whump fics as they tend to focus on the pain of the one being whumped, and in her story it was the emotional pain of the one helping the one whumped. I found the details of Teyla's dilemma kind of refreshing as most tend to either over or under do such things. Plus it's still a WIP, so there could end up being more to it than just more whumping.

I do agree with you about how it (the whumping) can go on and on. Even in AnCa's story I'm starting to get anxious for their rescue. She's a good enough writer that I'm pretty sure she won't drag on to the point where the reader is rolling their eyes and saying "okay, Sheppard's been whumped more, get on with it already." Like I said in my spiel, it's the aftermath of the whump I really look forward to. So, yes, when it goes on and on with chapter after chapter describing pain and blood, I start to get antsy and wish the writer would get on with things already.

But I'm a heavy whumper myself and tend to be more tolerant of numerous whump chapters, especially if it's unique (having to stick a make-shift chest-tube in a friend, and the emotions involved, for example). So, no, don't think your comment a flame. You actually made an excellent point.

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks, I've been away and only managed to read your reply. Your thread got me thinking more about what aspects of whump stories that I like (hence, the continuation of this thread).

What I like about whump stories is when it acts as a catalyst demonstrating strength of character; the suffering a hero experiences leads him to hopelessness - something occurs, giving the hero strength, allowing him to fight back. The journey of the human spirit, the hero's struggle to persevere amidst adversity. His courage, determination, will to survive, and how at the end of it, it makes him a stronger person. That's what I like about whump. But it also has to be more than that, for I like to see things happening (action), how the hero fights back, how the injury tries to overwhelm him but he doesn't allow it to the best of his ability. I also like to see Shep's friends worrying about him, doing all they can to help him & support him.

I don't care for stories where the hero suffers injury and doesn't make any effort to overcome the pain & fight back. Stories where the hero just lies there unconscious the entire time doesn't appeal either. Stoic stories where hero is whumped but demonstrates NO pain, vulnerability or inner reflections, I call 'macho bullshit' stories and they annoy me. I enjoy stories where the hero is displayed as human, feeling fear, pain, confusion, but also wanting to survive and doing something about it. But the whump must be done in such a way where we don't say, 'enough already'!

Whump stories must also have the characters IC. I dislike stories where the heroes act out of character. I've read stories where there's nice whump but characters behave way OOC in showing their care and concern for each other – like speaking a certain way (or too much) that they end up sounding more like girls instead of their characters, that doesn't appeal. Or stories where the heroes do something stupid or behave in a certain way which is way off character – like Shep's team would never stand around waiting at a building (to play it safe) if they knew that Shep was injured, and they knew his location. So, whump with characters IC is a big deal for me.

However, I do enjoy stories where the whump pushes the hero to places that leads the hero acting OOC but it must be done in a realistic manner. EG: In your story Coloring books, Shep acted OOC by not talking and having a crazy attachment to a coloring book. Despite Shep not behaving his normal self, you had written it so beautifully that we understood immediately why he was acting the way he did. And Rodney's reaction to it, wanting to help out his friend was brilliant. The end bit where Shep colored all the animals wrong and his words to his friend, I loved. It was one aspect of caring and camaraderie that I enjoy and the whump allowed this to occur! Oh there are numerous examples of your works where Sheppard freaks out due to whump but it is done in a great way. (The only exception that I couldn't handle and had to stop reading was Eyes Wide Open.)

Talking about freak out, I've been following Stargalaxy's story where Shep's experience and torture leads him to having a breakdown and Rodney ends up pulling him into a hug to try to prevent him from hurting himself. Now, I can never imagine McKay and Shep ever hugging, but in that instance, how the plot made it entirely plausible, demonstrating the camaraderie and friendship that these two men have. It was an aaaw moment for me. Kodiak's Autumn where Shep came to feel affection for his torturer – sick king that he was, again was another plausible set up where there is a reason why the characters acted out of their normal self but written so well that it worked.

Hmm, saying this made me now realize that I have never dropped a review for any these stories that I thoroughly enjoyed either. Bad me! Lol.

So guess I like whump when caring and friendship is demonstrated to the fullest (nothing sexual or romantic about it) and also where whump leads to strength of the human spirit against adversity. :D Sorry for the long entry, got sort of carried away. Lol

Reading now

[kriadydragon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Eyes Wide open was one of my darkest fics that made a lot of people squick, but it was more an experiment in a whumping technique (seeing how far I could take it) and I had some trouble trying to end the thing.

I believe there is a certain temptation to alter a character just to get a desired result after the whump. I've shucked many plot ideas because they end warping Shep's character way too much.

It's really not hard to keep characters in character during the whump and comfort, but it does get harder the worse the character is mentally/physically hurt (Kodiak has mentioned the difficulty with her story Autumn, making the team turning against him plausible.) It's the same trouble I had with Eyes because the whump was so massive that there's no way he'd get over it in a day, and I wasn't sure how his mental state should be after the torment.

It's the mental aftermath I believe a lot of people have trouble with and why they go for the quick fixes (siccing Heightmeyer on him or yelling at him to get over it). I also believe it's why many stories don't get finished once the whump has come and gone. The heavier the whump, the more carefully a story needs to be plotted out.

Thanks for replying. You kind of response is what I always hope for. I like these kind of neutral discussions that aren't meant to spark debate to to explore something - in this case, whumping. A lot of people like to define whumping as either a fettish or a type pornography (seriously, people say that.) But it's not, it's a plot device and a useful one at that.

[wraithfodder.livejournal.com]

Well, too tired to do any big post ;) but I really liked what you posted about whumping. The main reason I read whump stories is for the comfort afterwards, and the emotions that are brought out during the experience.