No, it doesn't have to be one or the other

[kriadydragon]

Okay, so maybe this is simply a matter of me being a lot more aware of certain issues than I used to be but I feel like there's been a steady increase of the attitude that "All religious people are superstitious idiots who think science is evil." I mean, I know the debate of science vs. religion and you either believe in science or you believe in God has been around forever, but I've always considered it one of those incredibly stupid and pointless arguments because while, yes, granted, you do have your religions who totally reject science, as usual it is not the case with every single religion out there.

My faith, for example. We don't see God as some magician who waved his hand and, poof, there was the Earth. We believe he works in natural ways just as much as mysterious ways (as a religious teacher of mine once put it, God has a Ph.d in everything). For us, science doesn't disprove anything, instead it explains a lot. There are scientists out there who believe in God, and instead of their faith being diminished by science, it's increased. Speaking for myself, I adore shows that explore how the Earth might have been made, or the moon, or the galaxy, because it's so fascinating and reminds me just how awesome God's creations are. As for those bits and tiddles of science that I don't agree with... for one, I just don't worry about it. For another, come on, scientists disagree about stuff all the time, and what's fact today may be disproved by tomorrow. Thus why I don't worry about it.

So, yeah, don't give me this crap about it's either science or religion and you can't be a scientist and be religious, or that being religious stifles the need to ask questions and make discoveries. It's sort of like with that Baptist church who protests funerals - they do not represent religion and religious people as a whole. So just because someone says they're Christian don't even assume that means they reject science. And just because someone's a scientist does not automatically mean they don't believe in God.

I've been on this major "don't judge a religion by the fanatics" kick lately. Or, more accurately, "quit it with the religious-shaming" kick. I feel like anti-religious feelings (and I mean really nasty anti-religious feelings) have been sky-rocketing, lately. Then again, I feel there's been a drastic increase of having no respect for other people's opinions and beliefs, period. That it's gone from let's agree to disagree, to you don't agree with me therefore you're stupid, to you don't agree with me therefore you are evil and must be verbally ripped to shreds and shunned (something our family had a personal experience with just last month, thank you very much politics :P I won't go into it except to say that something hurtful and insulting had been said, simply because our political opinions differed from that of someone else).

Comments

[black-raven135.livejournal.com]

"...I feel there's been a drastic increase of having no respect for other people's opinions and beliefs, period..."

I have been deeply troubled by this lately.

[kristen999.livejournal.com]

I'm not religious, but I never understood why science and religion can't go hand-in-hand.

Why can't science be because of God's will if you believe that way? I mean, why can't the whole Earth that was built in seven days be symbolic and that seven days really was the billions of years et el needed for the Galaxy to happen?

It's frustrating to think the those who have faith in the spiritual can't embrace that the spiritual causes the logical, scientific things to happen?

If God is God, than why can't he or she be the chief architect that puts everything in motion?

*shrugs*

[aim2misbhave.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this. To me, the beauty of science and math is like a part of how I understand God.

And this is despite the fact that my mom tried her best to raise me to believe in the most anti-science positions taken by Christians aside from the "dinosaurs-didn't-exist" position. Although she did try to keep us away from dinosaur stuff on the basis that we might learn too much about evolution *eyeroll*

That said, my answer is that from a scientific standpoint, it's theoretically possible that beings that exist outside our space and time dimensions would be able to fit all the criteria for most deities and other spiritual beings. And, since we don't have the capacity or technology to measure it, then we should leave it as an open question until then.

[phoenixi77.livejournal.com]

I am studying science with hopes of becoming a scientist in a couple of years. I try to understand how certain genes and proteins work. But I also believe in God. I pray to him everyday that I continue to work and study hard and get success soon.

And when certain experiments give strange results, I blame him for making such complicated systems in our body ;)

But some people in my lab are atheists. One guy even told me that working in a scientific field, he has stopped believing in God.

[timespirt.livejournal.com]

I believe in both science and religion. I like to think I have a mind of my own and am not one of the clueless masses.

[iamhere23.livejournal.com]

I don't think they're mutually exclusive, people just argue that they are. I think it's personal anyway, but like you said, there's just no respect for opinions and beliefs. If you don't believe in God, some of the people you know are appalled and try to "save" you. If you do believe, people judge you and don't understand how you can believe in science and God at the same time. I say, believe what you believe and think what you want to think. Whatever it is, there will always be people that believe and think the opposite, but that's just the way it is *shrugs*. We have to learn to make peace with this even though everything would be much simpler if it wasn't so.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi, I don't know if I've ever posted a comment here before, but I've enjoyed reading your fic (I'm a white collar fan)!

Anyways, I just wanted to say that, as both a biologist and a christian myself, I really like your post! I was a biologist before I was a Christian (I got interested in religion in college, and was somewhat surprised that I came to believe), but I've never felt like there was any conflict between the two, for me. The natural world has always filled me with a sense of awe. Now I tend to think, how cool is it that God came up with the laws of nature/physics/etc, and created a world that follows them?! ;) And I get *paid* to study this stuff and try to figure it out! ;)

But like you, I'm not a fan of the stereotypes about scientists and christians. Of the people I've personally encountered, the vast majority of christians have no problem with my research, and many think it's cool or interesting (even though I'm studying early embryo development, which could potentially be a little controversial, if someone *wanted* to create controversy). And the vast majority of scientists have no problem with my religion, even if they don't agree with my beliefs, or just don't care. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I think there are a lot more tolerant people out there than the news would have us believe. ;) It's just that the fundamentalists tend to make better (more flashy, more controversial) news. I think it's just so much easier to stereotype a religion (or a country, or a culture, or a political party, or lifestyle) and set them up as some scary "Other" who's nothing like us, than it is to understand or convey how complex everyone and everything is. Okay, I think I may be rambling now, so I'm gonna stop. I just wanted to say that I appreciate what you posted. --Mrohr.

[sholio]

*nods* I agree! And I'm sorry people are being jerks. I guess it's human nature to judge any group by its loudest, most obnoxious members, but that doesn't make it right. I wish more people would stop and think and not judge people based on preconceived notions about what "that kind of people" are supposed to be like.

And I have never been able to understand why so many people (on both sides) think there has to be a conflict between religion and science. The way I see it, I guess, is that they teach us about different things. Science studies the physical workings of the world (atoms and gravity and biology and such); religion -- well, belief systems in general -- teaches lessons about how to live. Religion doesn't have much to say about atoms and gravity; science doesn't have much to say about the care and feeding of one's soul or the meaning of life. But they're both about finding wonder and beauty in the everyday, and I can't see why both of them can't coexist peacefully.

[imbecamiel.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear. Religion and science are FAR from incompatible. As Galileo said - I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. Yeah, I may have issues with a few scientific theories, for multiple reasons... but plenty of atheists have issues with them as well from a purely factual standpoint, and no one can blame their lack of faith for that. As you said, scientists are constantly learning more about the world, and needing to revise long-held beliefs - it's not as if challenging some point reflects a rejection of the whole. And yet... when it comes to certain things, the sheer emotional reaction, and even refusal to consider valid contradictory information, from some people claiming to be working on pure logic and facts is... well, kind of more reflective of people shouting, "Die, heretic! How dare you commit such sacrilege!" XP I do think that part of the problem comes when some people treat science as their religion, and therefore have difficulty when someone challenges any aspect of what, for them, are deeply-held beliefs, not facts and theories always subject to further testing and modification when new discoveries are made.

And oh yes, on the "People who don't agree with me are evil and need to be crushed into silence!" tendencies. They do seem to be getting worse and worse lately. I thought "tolerance" was supposed to be such a big thing these days... but it seems what it's actually turned into is "I will tolerate you and love you if you believe in and support exactly the same things I do - but if you're one of those stupid, nasty people I deem intolerant because you disagree with me about something, then of COURSE you've lost your right to an opinion, no matter what the reasons behind it!" :/

[ladyrose42.livejournal.com]

Of course bashing religion is a good excuse to lower your moral and/or ethical standards. Then again there is nothing worse than a born again militant Christian. I much prefer the soft sell by demostration of how you live your life to the this is how you should live your life. Although the trials of Job would challenge anyone, who said faith should be easy or only on Sunday. I swear when I waitressed the post church diners, after their fire and brimstone, were my worst customers when they should have been my best. As for science, people will use any excuse for belief or non-belief. Rambling off now.

[x-erikah-x.livejournal.com]

For me it doesn't make sense for a person to believe in religion and not believe in science. If God created us, then he created science. Living creatures have DNA, plants grow, children are born and cells multiply. Suns are born and they die. The explanation that it happens through the interaction of atoms and gases doesn't exclude that they were created by God.

I've given up trying to express my opinions on this matter because it caused a few disagreements already. If people at least respected different opinions without necessarily agreeing, then I'd accept it, but they just label us, judge and insult and it really hurts.